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Tom Kazansky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
Beside the fact that the vast majority of cell phone users aren't literate enough to even know what jailbreaking is, much less how to do it.

Really, most people now should be able to figure that out.

Step 1: Go to www.google.ca
Step 2: Type in "how to jailbreak your iPhone"
Step 3: Follow instructions
Step 4: Profit

Yes, I know most people wont bother attempting for a variety of reasons, but I think anyone who really wants to get off AT&T really should be able to do it.
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Old 05-11-2010, 06:52 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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Tom Kazansky
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Originally Posted by Coqui View Post
My problem has always been the price gouging.

TSRH. I can't justify buying an Apple product by price tag alone, let alone it doesn't add any advantages for the premium I have to pay. And the lack of modularity/modifiability, but that's another thing all together.
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Old 05-11-2010, 06:53 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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Tom Kazansky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuffinMan8869 View Post
i know, i actually hate most apple fanboys as much as the normal sane person. Its a fuckin company, and its a product. thats it.

I'd also like to give you props for not being a shithead!

It's really refreashing to see an Apple user able to justify their preference based on real world technical advantages to them, as opposed to turning their nose up like a smug asshole and reciting a line from an Apple commercial. "It just works, humph".
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Old 05-11-2010, 06:54 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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Coqui
 
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Originally Posted by Tom Kazansky View Post
Really, most people now should be able to figure that out.

Step 1: Go to www.google.ca
Step 2: Type in "how to jailbreak your iPhone"
Step 3: Follow instructions
Step 4: Profit

Yes, I know most people wont bother attempting for a variety of reasons, but I think anyone who really wants to get off AT&T really should be able to do it.

Most people now should be able to figure out how not to get infected with spyware too.

Step 1: Go to www.google.com
Step 2: Type in "Malwarebytes"
Step 3; Download application and run scan
Step 4: Profit

That doesn't mean people want to do it though. Yes it's not the only thing to prevent spyware, but it is a good one to have.
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Old 05-11-2010, 07:07 PM Coqui is offline  
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bingstudent
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Originally Posted by Tom Kazansky View Post
It's impossible to get a 3G provider from a jailbroken iPhone? That's news to me, although admittedly I don't have one and don't live in the United States, so even if I did I wouldn't be on AT&T.

Last I checked, they say about 8.5% if iPhone and iTouch users jailbreak, so you're correct, but I did say a good chunk. 8.5% is a good chunk, but still a strong minority to be fair.

I'm 99 percent sure that the only other networks you can use a jailbroken iphone on are edge only .... I think a good chunk of people jailbreak but not to leave AT&T behind ... they just do it in order to use the device the way they see fit.
Old 05-11-2010, 07:35 PM bingstudent is offline  
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Originally Posted by Tom Kazansky View Post
TSRH. I can't justify buying an Apple product by price tag alone, let alone it doesn't add any advantages for the premium I have to pay. And the lack of modularity/modifiability, but that's another thing all together.

are we talking iphone here or the computer side of things?
i understand this argument for the computers, but for a phone, i don't mind the closed nature of apple for phones that much.

The only real bad thing in my opinion is the damn battery on the iphone, but since most people replace their phones every 2 years its not that big of an issue if you think about it. I have wanted an iphone for a while now simply because of the apps. The phone itself is meh, but damn are there some really nice applications for the iphone. however, just like the states Japan has given the iphone to shittiest carrier (softbank) and i refuse to pay 800 dollars for a phone over 2 years that i know is worth only 250.
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Old 05-11-2010, 08:47 PM MuffinMan8869 is offline  
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Tom Kazansky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coqui View Post
Most people now should be able to figure out how not to get infected with spyware too.

Step 1: Go to www.google.com
Step 2: Type in "Malwarebytes"
Step 3; Download application and run scan
Step 4: Profit

That doesn't mean people want to do it though. Yes it's not the only thing to prevent spyware, but it is a good one to have.

While that might be true, it doesn't mean we can simply dismiss it as something people "can't do for themselves". They can, they just don't.
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Old 05-11-2010, 10:53 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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Tom Kazansky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bingstudent View Post
I'm 99 percent sure that the only other networks you can use a jailbroken iphone on are edge only .... I think a good chunk of people jailbreak but not to leave AT&T behind ... they just do it in order to use the device the way they see fit.

I'm not sure about that, I'd have to see. I thought the main benefit of jailbreaking was freedom from AT&T among other things.
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Old 05-11-2010, 10:54 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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Tom Kazansky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuffinMan8869 View Post
are we talking iphone here or the computer side of things?
i understand this argument for the computers, but for a phone, i don't mind the closed nature of apple for phones that much.

The only real bad thing in my opinion is the damn battery on the iphone, but since most people replace their phones every 2 years its not that big of an issue if you think about it. I have wanted an iphone for a while now simply because of the apps. The phone itself is meh, but damn are there some really nice applications for the iphone. however, just like the states Japan has given the iphone to shittiest carrier (softbank) and i refuse to pay 800 dollars for a phone over 2 years that i know is worth only 250.

Computers? Definitely! Apple designs are retarded for user customizability.

The phone? Less so, but I still have issues with it.

1) Number one is the battery thing you're talking about, which is an obvious attempt at Apple to force users to RMA. RMAing a product is normally not a huge deal, except in this case we're talking about a phone which is essential for some folks in their day to day lives. But don't worry, you can rent one from Apple while you wait for your's to return in the mail....for only $10/day! What a stupid cash grab! The iPhone is the only phone that does this.

2) Lack of memory expandability. Again, this is Apple's way of forcing users to pay them for "upgrades" you can do yourself on any other platform. Every other smartphone I can pick up a memory card and add upwards of 32 GB of memory, or more as the technology evolves. With the iPhone, my options are what, 4 gig and 8 gig or something? No more, no less, no ability to change that ASIDE FROM BUYING A PHONE WITH MORE MEMORY. This is the kind of anti-consumer shit Apple does that pisses me off, but by the looks of their sales figures, it only pisses me off. They did the same thing with the iPad and not including a USB port, which they can't justify and is obviously done so users wont attach an external hard drive and save themselves a few hundred dollars by buying the basic model.

3) Yeah, there's 150,000 apps for it, which is great and all, but included in that are apps that have their functionality duplicated, and silly things like the "iFart". Not included in that, shit that might be useful, like Google Voice (obviously done to pacify AT&T). Why? Because Apple dictates what can and cannot be used on their platform. That's something I hate the most about Apple today. It's like Microsoft of the 90s, but worse, because at least with Microsoft I could use a competitor's software on their OS if I wanted to.

4) I'm not a big fan of only a touch screen input. There are other phones on the market that use both, and I'd much prefer that layout. Apple seems to refuse to consider that design concept, presumably because it removes them from that "solid shell" product design they're trademarking.

Don't get me wrong, the iPhone is not total shit, but these four things are what keeps me from buying one. It's a nice looking phone, for sure, and if Apple began changing this around, then I might buy one. They wont though, and they proved that when they started soldering batteries into iPods to prevent users from swapping them out VIA after market kits at a greatly reduced cost.

Interesting about the Japanese carrier issue. Was that another exclusivity deal with Apple?

Also, if you're in Japan, presumably you'll already have something better than the iPhone the rest of us losers wont see for another 2 or 3 years .
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Last edited by Tom Kazansky; 05-11-2010 at 11:06 PM..
Old 05-11-2010, 11:01 PM Tom Kazansky is offline  
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MuffinMan8869
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Kazansky View Post
Computers? Definitely! Apple designs are retarded for user customizability.

The phone? Less so, but I still have issues with it.

1) Number one is the battery thing you're talking about, which is an obvious attempt at Apple to force users to RMA. RMAing a product is normally not a huge deal, except in this case we're talking about a phone which is essential for some folks in their day to day lives. But don't worry, you can rent one from Apple while you wait for your's to return in the mail....for only $10/day! What a stupid cash grab! The iPhone is the only phone that does this.

2) Lack of memory expandability. Again, this is Apple's way of forcing users to pay them for "upgrades" you can do yourself on any other platform. Every other smartphone I can pick up a memory card and add upwards of 32 GB of memory, or more as the technology evolves. With the iPhone, my options are what, 4 gig and 8 gig or something? No more, no less, no ability to change that ASIDE FROM BUYING A PHONE WITH MORE MEMORY. This is the kind of anti-consumer shit Apple does that pisses me off, but by the looks of their sales figures, it only pisses me off. They did the same thing with the iPad and not including a USB port, which they can't justify and is obviously done so users wont attach an external hard drive and save themselves a few hundred dollars by buying the basic model.

3) Yeah, there's 150,000 apps for it, which is great and all, but included in that are apps that have their functionality duplicated, and silly things like the "iFart". Not included in that, shit that might be useful, like Google Voice (obviously done to pacify AT&T). Why? Because Apple dictates what can and cannot be used on their platform. That's something I hate the most about Apple today. It's like Microsoft of the 90s, but worse, because at least with Microsoft I could use a competitor's software on their OS if I wanted to.

4) I'm not a big fan of only a touch screen input. There are other phones on the market that use both, and I'd much prefer that layout. Apple seems to refuse to consider that design concept, presumably because it removes them from that "solid shell" product design they're trademarking.

Don't get me wrong, the iPhone is not total shit, but these four things are what keeps me from buying one. It's a nice looking phone, for sure, and if Apple began changing this around, then I might buy one. They wont though, and they proved that when they started soldering batteries into iPods to prevent users from swapping them out VIA after market kits at a greatly reduced cost.

Interesting about the Japanese carrier issue. Was that another exclusivity deal with Apple?

Also, if you're in Japan, presumably you'll already have something better than the iPhone the rest of us losers wont see for another 2 or 3 years .


lots ot talk about here, so lets do the whole numbers thing, keeps shit organized.

1) I totally agree. Its a shitty policy, but it also has to do with the astetics, rather you like it or not, apple spends a lot of time on their design. Some would argue one of the key things to the iphones success was its retardedly simple interface and design. limited buttons, limited ports etc. You can give it to grandma, and she can figure that shit out.

But i think we can agree that it also sucks ass, I don't have an iphone, i have an itouch (which i love).

2) Dude, i am totally with you on this one. I was pissed about the ipad not having a fuckin usb port, or a camera. Its absolutely retarded that they would make a 16,32,64gb model and charge that fuckin much for it. One reason why my new laptop was a windows 7 machine is i got 500gigs of hard drive and a lot more features than an Ipad for about the same price of their 64gig model. That and i got a sweet deal in signing up for wireless broadband

http://www.nttdocomo.co.jp/product/foma/data/l05a/
i got this badboy, 7meg down and 5 meg up via the cell phone network with unlimited access for 5000 yen a month (about 50USD) and when i signed up for it i got 30,000 off a new computer (about 300USD)

it was a no brainer.

3) the fact that apple controls it is a blessing and a curse. In my opinon it has kept the app store relatively free of bad programs. I think shit like the iFart shows more about the state of humanity than the app store itself. But anyways, it keeps programs within the form factor, and gives them certain rights on shit to do. This is where the "it just works" factor kind of comes into play. Won't be many program crashes (although there are bound to be some) and keeps them semi-forced to use the same damn interface.

again, even if you hate PC's its all about the apps, so many people are tied to PCs. And apple has got a corner on the mobile application market right now for better or worse, so if you want the best selection of apps with the best usability right now on a mobile platform, you kind of have to go to apple.

4) i love the interface. granted its got some issues, but its ten times better than the interface on my current phone.


about your comment about the Japanese phones, believe it or not the Japanese phone industry isn't that much farther than the states, if at all. A few years ago that might of been true, hell they had 3g here/everywhere about 5 years before it even was available in the states.

The only thing i can think the japanese market has over the American market is the amount of Japan only features that have been incorporated
for example

Felica
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FeliCa
This can be quite useful if you live in the city, it is used at restaurants, convenient stores, and trains

Digital TV (works on a J only standard)

and Cameras, the cameras in phones here are usually 5meg or higher in resolution, i had a 5.4megapixle camera phone in 2006, my current model was a downgrade for the internet functions (but i can bitch about how bad they are another time)


my current phone was the "internet machine" phone from two years ago that didn't do flash, or load any computer website right, and lets not get into how tied it was into fuckin yahoo japan. Yahoo basically made it to where i couldn't use any other service besides yahoo, fuckin internet phone my ass, it was a yahoo phone.





and last but not least yea, the ATnT deal and the Softbank deal were very similar. Softbank shelled out a huge amount of money for exclusivity to apple, and apple bought it.
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Old 05-11-2010, 11:31 PM MuffinMan8869 is offline  
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Computers? Definitely! Apple designs are retarded for user customizability..

forgot to address this in the previous post, Yea, you got apple on that one. It fuckin blows. I can't argue for it. That is why i will probably never buy an apple desktop, just not worth it for the money and the LACK of features/Upgrades. I seem more willing to buy a laptop because the sturdy case/design and the fact i don't go prodding around within my laptop makes it a little more ok.

I also don't have the time and resources these days to run out and order all my parts separately, so i havn't built a PC since my last PC that was a Athlon 64 back in the day, Laptops are where i have been going these days, cause i use my computer more on the move than i do at one stationary place.
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Old 05-11-2010, 11:35 PM MuffinMan8869 is offline  
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I work for an IT firm that maintains servers and computer networks for small businesses in metro Detroit and Chicago.
I'm starting to lose track the number of times an employee of one of our clients (usually someone higher up) buys a mac then returns it and buys a pc within a week.

They always want to buy a Mac because of how cool and hip it is, everyone is doing it! So I go out to their house, set it all up for them (honest to god I've had people who don't know how to finish the initial set up on a Mac, its clicking a fucking next button for god's sake) then within day's I get a call back saying they can't figure out how to use it and wan't to return it for a PC.

Lately the hot fad has been people buying iPads then getting pissed at ME because they can't use Entourage with it, or connect to our network VPN, etc. I can't get through to their head that it's not a laptop replacement.

In all honesty, at least with the Apple users that I have to deal with on a day-to-day basis, they are some of the most ignorant people i've ever met in my life
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Old 05-12-2010, 10:07 AM Namtaru is offline  
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They always want to buy a Mac because of how cool and hip it is, everyone is doing it! So I go out to their house, set it all up for them (honest to god I've had people who don't know how to finish the initial set up on a Mac, its clicking a fucking next button for god's sake) then within day's I get a call back saying they can't figure out how to use it and wan't to return it for a PC.

I'd set it up myself so I don't have to worry about them having admin access.
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Old 05-12-2010, 10:43 AM Coqui is offline  
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bingstudent
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I'm not sure about that, I'd have to see. I thought the main benefit of jailbreaking was freedom from AT&T among other things.

yes it can give you freedom from AT&T but then you lose your mobile broadband network so it's a pretty hard edge on the other side of that sword.

most people that are jailbreaking are doing it to be able to do things like tether, run non-jobs approved apps, customize their phone, etc.
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I really think the app argument in favor of the iphone is bunk,

what really crucial apps does android lack that iphone has?

aren't most of the iphone's apps just various copies of others (like the 600 different fart apps?)

android has some incredible apps that the iphone lacks:

google voice
skymap
latitude

plus most free apps on android have to be paid for on the iphone so I really don't see why this is such a huge selling point for apple ...
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