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joemama
Watch Toomer burn those cowboys. How bout them cowboys?
 
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The end of "Don't ask, don't tell" in the U.S. military..

The Senate armed service committee has voted to repeal the "don't ask don't tell" for gays in the military...but congress hasn't made it law yet. My first reaction is to say "sure why not, they're already serving anyway"...but then again I'm not so sure that the current policy isn't the best one when I think about it more. Can you imagine allowing men and women to bunk and shower together in the military? There are already romances between military men and women...most aren't an issue but some do cause real problems. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this pretty much the same as gay/straight men (or women) bunking and sharing a bathroom together? As it is now, gay men/women usually don't make advances to straight soldiers because they will get booted from the military...and homophobic straight soldiers usually don't treat gays any differently, but will this continue if there are 3 classes of soldiers? (straight men, straight women, gays/lesbians) Anyone in the military will tell you that an effective fighting force relies on putting your complete trust in your fellow soldiers, and I really don't know if repealing the ban will affect that or not. Keep in mind that the military is not the same as the academic/corporate world or simply normal life where gays/straights working or living together is not an issue.

edit- yes, I am aware that 34 countries (most of them allies) allow gays to openly serve...but we are talking about the U.S. military and the current internal culture which may not be quite the same as those countries.
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Old 05-28-2010, 02:19 PM joemama is online now  
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5ive
 
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If it worked for blacks, it'll work for gays.
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Old 05-28-2010, 02:59 PM 5ive is offline  
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Abu-mk2
 
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don't ask don't tell is exactly what sexual preference should be, a personal affair. keep that shit to yourself
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Old 05-28-2010, 03:09 PM Abu-mk2 is offline  
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Frenetic
 
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joe, I've heard those points before, and some of them are legitimate, but at the end of the day, being in the military is a job. Don't get me wrong, it's a damn important job where trusting in co-workers and superiors is a a lot more important than at Wal-Mart, but it's still a job. And people who sign on for the military deserve the same rights and protections as any other job.

I know there's people that are worried about gays hitting on guys in the shower or whatever, and I'm going to be realistic here: That's going to happen. There will always be a few bad apples in every group, but that shouldn't tarnish the thousands of gay soldiers that can be (and have been) just as professional as anyone else. And for the few that do go against protocol, I hope they get reported and dealt with. But also keep in mind that gays will be walking in a minefield as well if this is repealed, as a guy that has an axe to grind with a homosexual can give a false report of harassment to his CO.

There's risks for both sides because it means dealing with a pretty big elephant in the military, but all I can think is how much it must suck for an upstanding dude to get kicked out of the military just because they found out he was gay. That's 1950s , and it doesn't belong in this century. I know people say America "isn't ready" for this kind of integration, but people dragged that line out during the civil rights movement as well. More often than not social change doesn't happen until someone or something forces it to change, as much as people will resist it. Seriously, this is going to be something our kids look back on and wonder why we didn't enact this sooner.
Old 05-28-2010, 04:22 PM Frenetic is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu-mk2 View Post
don't ask don't tell is exactly what sexual preference should be, a personal affair. keep that shit to yourself

So should heterosexuals in the military also keep that shit to themselves?
Old 05-28-2010, 04:38 PM SemperFly is offline  
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Frenetic
 
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Remember that one guy who got kicked out of the Army when people figured out he liked women?
Old 05-28-2010, 04:43 PM Frenetic is offline  
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Forever Domon
 
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So should heterosexuals in the military also keep that shit to themselves?
in the context of their job? Absofuckinglutely.
Old 05-28-2010, 04:46 PM Forever Domon is offline  
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Electrikfuzz050
 
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in the context of their job? Absofuckinglutely.

This.

Instead of getting rid of this I'd rather them subject heterosexuals to the same rules and regulations.
Old 05-28-2010, 04:48 PM Electrikfuzz050 is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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in the context of their job? Absofuckinglutely.

Of course but this goes far beyond the context of the job. I can't be discharged for grocery shopping at the commissary with my significant other.

It's nice to think that everyone's personal life is inconsequential when you drive through the gate but it's just not true. People talk about their relationships just like they do in any other job.

Most importantly, with this and the refusal of states to accept same-sex marriage, people doing the exact same work as you or I are denied benefits that either of us could get by marrying a different stripper every six months.
Old 05-28-2010, 04:54 PM SemperFly is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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Originally Posted by Electrikfuzz050 View Post
This.

Instead of getting rid of this I'd rather them subject heterosexuals to the same rules and regulations.

And that would be retarded. Basically any time someone in the military went out on a date and happened to be seen by someone else in their unit they could face discharge. Or to take the situation further, discharges would fly just for filing for dependent BAH when getting married.

This has nothing to do with keeping it to themselves while on duty.
Old 05-28-2010, 04:55 PM SemperFly is offline  
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Forever Domon
 
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All the situations you're proposing occur outside working hours. While the military is different, as you technically work 24 hours a day, its still not appropriate to be having, or discussing your relationships during work rather than doing your job responsibilities.

Just like I wouldnt hit on the female secretary at work, I just expect the same. On the other hand, if i happen to meet the same secretary someplace outside work (px, gym, whatever) then the same professional contraints arent necessary.
Old 05-28-2010, 04:59 PM Forever Domon is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domonbaylespam View Post
All the situations you're proposing occur outside working hours. While the military is different, as you technically work 24 hours a day, its still not appropriate to be having, or discussing your relationships during work rather than doing your job responsibilities.

Just like I wouldnt hit on the female secretary at work, I just expect the same. On the other hand, if i happen to meet the same secretary someplace outside work (px, gym, whatever) then the same professional contraints arent necessary.

Exactly. But DADT is not limited to working hours.

LtCol Fehrenbach spent 18 years keeping his personal life away from working hours yet despite being a decorated combat veteran that did his job as well as any other pilot, he could lose everything because someone outside of his command outed him for things done outside of working hours.

Yet I could meet some random ho tonight, marry her tomorrow and by the end of the month I'd be getting dependent BAH. edit: well it's the 28th so the end of next month. fucking S-1

This issue isn't about letting gays hit on their colleagues while in uniform and on the job.
Old 05-28-2010, 05:05 PM SemperFly is offline  
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Xayd
 
now all we have to do is wait for these bible thumper organizations in the military to harass homos, and we can berate them out of the military for discrimination.

to answer the obvious question coming from some bible thumper on this forum, yes...

homos = ok
religion = needs to diaf
Old 05-29-2010, 02:16 PM Xayd is offline  
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lagomorph
 
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I see this as inevitable. Some may say that it will hurt morale, and I agree it likely will in the short term -- might take a decade or more for people to adjust. But I think if it's going to happen anyway, then better to do it now rather than later.
Old 05-29-2010, 02:21 PM lagomorph is offline  
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Vote McCain!
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Quote:
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now all we have to do is wait for these bible thumper organizations in the military to harass homos, and we can berate them out of the military for discrimination.

to answer the obvious question coming from some bible thumper on this forum, yes...

homos = ok
religion = needs to diaf

THIS.

the christian BS is a real problem in the military, some of the guys say they are doing "god's work" in iraq/afghanistan.
Old 05-29-2010, 06:21 PM Vote McCain! is offline  
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