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Coqui
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SemperFly View Post
There are some intelligent people that hold these opinions as well. Being smart does not preclude one from being discriminatory.

Frankly, I disagree with this. Anyone who thinks a person can not fulfill their duties in whatever field it may be in simply because they are a different religion (unless the duty is proselytization of the Christian faith) or because they are homosexual (unless they are a male escort to females) is an idiot.
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Old 06-01-2010, 12:38 PM Coqui is offline  
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Straw Man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SemperFly View Post
It's not about intelligence, it's primarily a religious issue. There are a lot of very intelligent people in the military, including the front line infantry and combat arms roles. But most hard line social conservatives that hold these anti-gay sentiments use their faith as the excuse.

Now ruho and others are going to argue that said faith is evidence that this is indeed an issue of intelligence but they're retarded and you know better.
I think you sometimes take my trolling rampages a bit too seriously

I don't find faith necessarily stupid, but rather the means one gets there, if we're seriously talking jive about this shit.

And yeah, religious or not, it doesn't really matter. I don't think you'll find a "modern day" army of any kind that isn't the kind that upkeeps certain traditions and such. Butt fucking isn't one of them, to put it bluntly. Now that you mentioned faith, that is one of these traditions. King country and god and all that other jibberjabber
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Old 06-01-2010, 12:49 PM Straw Man is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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Originally Posted by Coqui View Post
Frankly, I disagree with this. Anyone who thinks a person can not fulfill their duties in whatever field it may be in simply because they are a different religion (unless the duty is proselytization of the Christian faith) or because they are homosexual (unless they are a male escort to females) is an idiot.

That's not what I'm saying at all. It's not about their ability to do their job, it's the difficulty of accepting someone who is gay when you've been brought up your entire life to believe a certain way, namely that homosexuality is an affront to one's religious beliefs. Add to that the social and political controversy of the matter and remember that the majority of the military is made up of 18 and 19 year olds that just moved away from their parents, the primary motivator in such ideas.

That trouble in accepting someone who your entire belief system says is an abomination hinders the development of trust that has to form in a combat unit. That's the effect on morale and unit cohesion I'm talking about, not one's ability to perform.
Old 06-01-2010, 01:04 PM SemperFly is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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I think you sometimes take my trolling rampages a bit too seriously

I don't find faith necessarily stupid, but rather the means one gets there, if we're seriously talking jive about this shit.

And yeah, religious or not, it doesn't really matter. I don't think you'll find a "modern day" army of any kind that isn't the kind that upkeeps certain traditions and such. Butt fucking isn't one of them, to put it bluntly. Now that you mentioned faith, that is one of these traditions. King country and god and all that other jibberjabber

Right, and I try to explain to detractors that not all traditions are meant to be kept.

But it's difficult to reason someone out of a position they haven't reasoned themselves into.
Old 06-01-2010, 01:06 PM SemperFly is offline  
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Coqui
 
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That's not what I'm saying at all. It's not about their ability to do their job, it's the difficulty of accepting someone who is gay when you've been brought up your entire life to believe a certain way, namely that homosexuality is an affront to one's religious beliefs. Add to that the social and political controversy of the matter and remember that the majority of the military is made up of 18 and 19 year olds that just moved away from their parents, the primary motivator in such ideas.

That trouble in accepting someone who your entire belief system says is an abomination hinders the development of trust that has to form in a combat unit. That's the effect on morale and unit cohesion I'm talking about, not one's ability to perform.

I understand. I disagree with the concept behind it, but I understand.
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Old 06-01-2010, 01:07 PM Coqui is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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Believe me, I disagree with it as well and I also believe that the problems faced by those few should not overshadow the need to not only keep qualified personnel - such as arabic cryptolinguists and decorated combat pilots - but to also provide those that have served honorably with the same respect and compensation for that service as the rest of us.
Old 06-01-2010, 01:22 PM SemperFly is offline  
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bingstudent
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But it's difficult to reason someone out of a position they haven't reasoned themselves into.

great stuff.
Old 06-01-2010, 09:17 PM bingstudent is offline  
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Originally Posted by SemperFly View Post

That trouble in accepting someone who your entire belief system says is an abomination hinders the development of trust that has to form in a combat unit. That's the effect on morale and unit cohesion I'm talking about, not one's ability to perform.

if someone's belief system says some other soldier is an 'abomination' because he's a different sex, religion, or race than they are, they need to be discharged if they can't put aside their belief system.

soldiers take an oath to support and defend as well as bear true faith and allegiance to the constitution, last time i checked. the 1st and 4th amendments to the constitution effectively say you cannot discriminate against people based on sexual orientation.

therefore, their religion is not welcome in the US armed services.

voila, problem solved.
Old 06-01-2010, 10:44 PM Xayd is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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if someone's belief system says some other soldier is an 'abomination' because he's a different sex, religion, or race than they are, they need to be discharged if they can't put aside their belief system.

soldiers take an oath to support and defend as well as bear true faith and allegiance to the constitution, last time i checked. the 1st and 4th amendments to the constitution effectively say you cannot discriminate against people based on sexual orientation.

therefore, their religion is not welcome in the US armed services.

voila, problem solved.

The first and fourth say nothing of the sort. Even if it did, the mere fact that one is religious does not mean he will discriminate based on sexual orientation.

The first amendment does, however, say that they have the right exercise their religion.

As for how unreasonable search and seizure relates to discrimination of gays....wtf are you smoking?
Old 06-01-2010, 11:08 PM SemperFly is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Spayed strikes again
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Old 06-04-2010, 02:53 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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Redrum
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answer me this this.

do soldiers shower with the men or with the women?

or do we give them their own separate shower room?
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Old 06-04-2010, 07:32 AM Redrum is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domonbaylespam View Post
i was 18, i was self conscious about everything as all 18 year olds are, of course i would worry about it.

And of course i dont want to come across as gay if im not, thats just misleading.

fucking cocktease
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There is nothing to worry about. Legions of wise people with nothing but all of best interests at heart are ensuring our future of love and infinite bliss. Go watch TV :Bflaps
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Old 06-04-2010, 07:33 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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Redrum
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but then again what do i care.

if s want to get their brains sprayed across the dunes of iraq and afghanistan for international banking interests, more power to them. s need to be cleansed from the gene pool and sending them all to afghanistan is a a good way to start
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Old 06-04-2010, 07:34 AM Redrum is offline  
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#148  

Xayd
 
Quote:
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The first and fourth say nothing of the sort. Even if it did, the mere fact that one is religious does not mean he will discriminate based on sexual orientation.

The first amendment does, however, say that they have the right exercise their religion.

As for how unreasonable search and seizure relates to discrimination of gays....wtf are you smoking?

the 4th is privacy, despite what scalia thinks.

anything anyone does where there's a 'reasonable expectation of privacy' cannot be used against them without due process.

so the government can't eavesdrop on someone's bedroom and if they find them with a gay partner dismiss them from a job based on that. the first of course is establishment of religion. if the government appeases someone's religion because their religion promotes discrimination against those of other religions, they are establishing a religion.

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Old 06-04-2010, 07:40 AM Xayd is offline  
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TheMorlock
Contrary to my previous title I never fucked Inf's mother
 
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So If I want to cut your head off in my bedroom I am protected by reasonable expectation of privacy.

So making it illegal for me to be a bedroom Spayed beheader is against the constitution.
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Old 06-04-2010, 07:46 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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