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Straw Man
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Originally Posted by SemperFly View Post
If this is the separate barracks and showers argument, the no. Political correctness, sensitivity training and mothers of america aside, the military is capable of handling gays in the barracks without a massive rash of sexual harassment cases. Idiots seem to think that just because a guy is gay that he'll be unable to control his urge to rape every fit male in the general area.

As for anything else that would have to change the only major obstacle is the people themselves who won't let go of their intolerance of people who are different. The one and only logistical question is dependency status but it's mostly a non-issue until more states start accepting gay marriage.

Exactly. I find it kind of funny thinking that people who sign up for the stuff, and (hopefully) are fully in the know that some day they might end up in some desert shithole and dodge bullets ...can't handle someone taking it up the ass.
It's a ridiculous thought.
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Old 05-31-2010, 02:46 PM Straw Man is offline  
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Forever Domon
 
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Some of the problem is that gay men tend to hit on other guys that arent gay. Hence, unwanted advances at the most basic of levels.
Old 05-31-2010, 02:56 PM Forever Domon is offline  
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Originally Posted by domonbaylespam View Post
Some of the problem is that gay men tend to hit on other guys that arent gay. Hence, unwanted advances at the most basic of levels.

Straight guys tend to hit on women that aren't interested. What's the difference?


Also gays have a tendency to be more professional at work as well.
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Old 05-31-2010, 03:10 PM Coqui is offline  
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Originally Posted by domonbaylespam View Post
Some of the problem is that gay men tend to hit on other guys that arent gay. Hence, unwanted advances at the most basic of levels.

And ugly men hit on women who don't want to be hit on, but there's no law against that.

It all depends on the context of hitting on. Are you politely making your interest known after what seems to be mutual attraction, or are you awkwardly just making the other person uncomfortable? The same discomfort can exist in both hetero and homosexual interactions, and most people don't have the balls to go around hitting on people they don't think they have a decent chance with anyway. I don't see how it's any worse than if a guy were to hit on a girl and she says lol no.
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Old 05-31-2010, 03:15 PM augusttremulous is offline  
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Both very valid points. I guess the difference is, if someone is behaving appropriately, youd never have any idea as to their sexual orientation. But the ones who lisp and limp wrist and wear stupid shit and generally act like 14 year old girls in the body of a 30 year old man give all the well behaved ones a bad name.

The same goes for men who are womanizers, they give all other straight men a bad name.
Old 05-31-2010, 03:21 PM Forever Domon is offline  
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Originally Posted by domonbaylespam View Post
Some of the problem is that gay men tend to hit on other guys that arent gay. Hence, unwanted advances at the most basic of levels.

Sorta like how straight men tend to hit on women that don't want to be hit on. This doesn't change anything. No one should be hitting on anyone at work and if it's off duty and some straight guy gets hit on by a gay guy, oh fucking well. Decline and go about your day. no one should be treated as a second-class citizen because someone else doesn't want to feel creeped out.

edit: I should have read the previous replied
Old 05-31-2010, 03:26 PM SemperFly is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augusttremulous View Post
And ugly men hit on women who don't want to be hit on, but there's no law against that.

It all depends on the context of hitting on. Are you politely making your interest known after what seems to be mutual attraction, or are you awkwardly just making the other person uncomfortable? The same discomfort can exist in both hetero and homosexual interactions, and most people don't have the balls to go around hitting on people they don't think they have a decent chance with anyway. I don't see how it's any worse than if a guy were to hit on a girl and she says lol no.
I agree with what you're saying on a basic level..but it all goes back to the military being a bit different than the civilian world. How many times have you slept right next to and showered/changed clothes with your coworkers in the civilian world? What if you were forced to do that with the ugly guy that hit on you...kind of an awkward situation isn't it? Also, men are much more likely to be physically aggressive to their own gender...you can ignore the ugly guy and go on with your business, but many homophobic men will take an advance from a gay man as a challenge to their sexuality. Remember that 18-30 year old males make up the bulk of all the military branches, and the military by nature is a macho, testosterone fueled job that at it's most basic requires using weapons and learning how to kill. (yes, I know there are many military jobs that aren't much different than civilian equivalents)
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Old 05-31-2010, 03:27 PM joemama is offline  
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I agree with what you're saying on a basic level..but it all goes back to the military being a bit different than the civilian world. How many times have you slept right next to and showered/changed clothes with your coworkers in the civilian world? What if you were forced to do that with the ugly guy that hit on you...kind of an awkward situation isn't it? Also, men are much more likely to be physically aggressive to their own gender...you can ignore the ugly guy and go on with your business, but many homophobic men will take an advance from a gay man as a challenge to their sexuality. Remember that 18-30 year old males make up the bulk of all the military branches, and the military by nature is a macho, testosterone fueled job that at it's most basic requires using weapons and learning how to kill. (yes, I know there are many military jobs that aren't much different than civilian equivalents)
This is also a valid point. How would you like to be forced to sleep next to 10 random guys from the street that you didnt know anything about that you knew were attracted to you, and have to be unclothed around them august?

Wouldnt be very comfortable.
Old 05-31-2010, 03:29 PM Forever Domon is offline  
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Originally Posted by domonbaylespam View Post
Both very valid points. I guess the difference is, if someone is behaving appropriately, youd never have any idea as to their sexual orientation. But the ones who lisp and limp wrist and wear stupid shit and generally act like 14 year old girls in the body of a 30 year old man give all the well behaved ones a bad name.

The same goes for men who are womanizers, they give all other straight men a bad name.

Those are a minority - albeit very visible one due to the entertainment industry - of the homosexual population. I don't want my dark green Marines to be sagging their trousers, wearing grillz and blasting ebonics at the CO but I don't ever worry that they're going to do that because I know those are just stereotypes and above that I know they're going to be professional.

Very unlikely that the limp wristed lisping flamboyant guy is going to be a significant demographic in the military.
Old 05-31-2010, 03:29 PM SemperFly is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama View Post
I agree with what you're saying on a basic level..but it all goes back to the military being a bit different than the civilian world. How many times have you slept right next to and showered with your coworkers in the civilian world? What if you were forced to do that with the ugly guy that hit on you...kind of an awkward situation isn't it? Also, men are much more likely to be physically aggressive to their own gender...you can ignore the ugly guy and go on with your business, but many homophobic men will take an advance from a gay man as a challenge to their sexuality. Remember that 18-30 year old males make up the bulk of all the military branches, and the military by nature is a macho, testosterone fueled job that at it's most basic requires using weapons and learning how to kill. (yes, I know there are many military jobs that aren't much different than civilian equivalents)

OK you're making generalizations here, so:
Many men take a rejected advance from a female as a challenge, they get pissed off and react. It happens all the time. You are aware of the high levels of sexual harassment and/or rape women in the military (and in civilian life) deal with on a daily basis?
Just because a guy's gay doesn't mean he's automatically going to be crushing on his platoon mates, and even if he crushes it doesn't mean he's going to act on it.

As long as we allow a culture of "beat the homos, prove you're a real man's man," we will be continuing to allow a culture of homophobia and treating them as partial citizens. Repealing DADT is a major step in moving away from that mentality.
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Old 05-31-2010, 03:34 PM augusttremulous is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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Originally Posted by domonbaylespam View Post
This is also a valid point. How would you like to be forced to sleep next to 10 random guys from the street that you didnt know anything about that you knew were attracted to you, and have to be unclothed around them august?

Wouldnt be very comfortable.

Wouldn't it be the other way around? Ten augusts sleeping next to one dude that may or may not find them all attractive.

s are estimated to make up about 2% of the total force. Not really going to be a statistically significant problem, especially since they're already there sleeping next to these people without any problem. The only difference is that now the straight ones may or may not know.

I believe most are capable of dealing with it like adults. There are those few on either side that would cause problem but it's not worth treating tens of thousands of people differently because even fewer would feel icky.

edit: I think we should just completely integrate the military like in starship troopers and bsg, anyone that can't handle it can gtfo.
Old 05-31-2010, 03:35 PM SemperFly is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domonbaylespam View Post
This is also a valid point. How would you like to be forced to sleep next to 10 random guys from the street that you didnt know anything about that you knew were attracted to you, and have to be unclothed around them august?

Wouldnt be very comfortable.




But really, there's nothing that says those 10 random dudes are attracted to me, simply by nature of them being heterosexual, and me meeting the single requirement to keep me in the running for their affections. Being attracted to men != being attracted to ALL men.
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Old 05-31-2010, 03:35 PM augusttremulous is offline  
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Forever Domon
 
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Originally Posted by augusttremulous View Post
OK you're making generalizations here, so:
Many men take a rejected advance from a female as a challenge, they get pissed off and react. It happens all the time. You are aware of the high levels of sexual harassment and/or rape women in the military (and in civilian life) deal with on a daily basis?
Just because a guy's gay doesn't mean he's automatically going to be crushing on his platoon mates, and even if he crushes it doesn't mean he's going to act on it.

As long as we allow a culture of "beat the homos, prove you're a real man's man," we will be continuing to allow a culture of homophobia and treating them as partial citizens. Repealing DADT is a major step in moving away from that mentality.
Going off the assumption of equality, why not just combine all bunking then, and have men and women bunk together as well



(because the rape you talked about would go up 10 fold)
Old 05-31-2010, 03:36 PM Forever Domon is offline  
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augusttremulous
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Originally Posted by domonbaylespam View Post
Going off the assumption of equality, why not just combine all bunking then, and have men and women bunk together as well



(because the rape you talked about would go up 10 fold)

Also because men don't want to be around tampons, and girls don't want to be around to hear dudes talking about their latest corps whore conquest.

As Semper said, the gays are already there! Like homo sleeper agents, waiting until you're asleep, poised to dive cockfirst into your unsuspecting virgin asshole!
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Old 05-31-2010, 03:39 PM augusttremulous is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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Also because men don't want to be around tampons, and girls don't want to be around to hear dudes talking about their latest corps whore conquest.

As Semper said, the gays are already there! Like homo sleeper agents, waiting until you're asleep, poised to dive cockfirst into your unsuspecting virgin asshole!

virgin?
Old 05-31-2010, 03:39 PM SemperFly is offline  
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