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Forever Domon
 
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haha, im actually not against it all. If theyre from a state where they can be legally married, they should be able to get the benefits thereof (BAH increase, transference of benefits, shared insurance, etc).

Just playing devils advocate here, 99% of them probably are very professional, but just like theres that 1% of straight men who are scum and commit rape within the military, im sure there the same percentage within the the gay community as well.
Old 05-31-2010, 03:41 PM Forever Domon is offline  
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OK you're making generalizations here, so:
Many men take a rejected advance from a female as a challenge, they get pissed off and react. It happens all the time. You are aware of the high levels of sexual harassment and/or rape women in the military (and in civilian life) deal with on a daily basis?
Just because a guy's gay doesn't mean he's automatically going to be crushing on his platoon mates, and even if he crushes it doesn't mean he's going to act on it.

As long as we allow a culture of "beat the homos, prove you're a real man's man," we will be continuing to allow a culture of homophobia and treating them as partial citizens. Repealing DADT is a major step in moving away from that mentality.
See, that's one of my points...simply repealing DADT won't miraculously change the behavior, and it might not be a good idea to do this when so many service people are deployed overseas. Then again, I'm open to the possibility that repealing DADT won't have much effect on the current status quo..
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Old 05-31-2010, 03:42 PM joemama is offline  
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haha, im actually not against it all. If theyre from a state where they can be legally married, they should be able to get the benefits thereof (BAH increase, transference of benefits, shared insurance, etc).

Just playing devils advocate here, 99% of them probably are very professional, but just like theres that 1% of straight men who are scum and commit rape within the military, im sure there the same percentage within the the gay community as well.

Rape is about power, not sex.
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Old 05-31-2010, 03:42 PM augusttremulous is offline  
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Forever Domon
 
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Rape is about power, not sex.
im aware, but that applies to both genders, doesnt it?


edit: hence prison rape.
Old 05-31-2010, 03:43 PM Forever Domon is offline  
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See, that's one of my points...simply repealing DADT won't miraculously change the behavior, and it might not be a good idea to do this when so many service people are deployed overseas. Then again, I'm open to the possibility that repealing DADT won't have much effect on the current status quo..

No one step is going to miraculously change anything, but if we never make steps towards progress, we never change anything. It's a gradual process. If we keep playing the
"no, today's not the right day to stop being a bigot" card, we never stop.
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Old 05-31-2010, 03:43 PM augusttremulous is offline  
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im aware, but that applies to both genders, doesnt it?


edit: hence prison rape.

Right, but a rapist is going to be a rapist regardless of gender, and a rapist is going to rape regardless of laws against it. There's already laws against male on male rape (as there are against any rape,) a rapist is clearly not a law abiding citizen, so why do you think they'd be deterred by DADT?
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Old 05-31-2010, 03:44 PM augusttremulous is offline  
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Forever Domon
 
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They wouldnt. The ones that are already in, and making the sacrifice to have to hide their personal lives from everyone arent really the concern.

Itd be those who previously didnt join due to DADT that will now that are scaring people i think.
Old 05-31-2010, 03:46 PM Forever Domon is offline  
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haha, im actually not against it all. If theyre from a state where they can be legally married, they should be able to get the benefits thereof (BAH increase, transference of benefits, shared insurance, etc).

Just playing devils advocate here, 99% of them probably are very professional, but just like theres that 1% of straight men who are scum and commit rape within the military, im sure there the same percentage within the the gay community as well.

didn't think you were but yes, those are the arguments often touted out and I do believe they're somewhat valid if a little paranoid. I just think our overall readiness will be better served by allowing those 60+ thousand to serve honestly and openly than by worrying what the few homophobes that just can't deal with the pressure think

There will be backlash, there will be some violence and there will be people leaving or refusing to reup because of this. Same thing happened when blacks were integrated and it's often considered the catalyst for the civil rights movement before Rosa Parks. And they did that during wartime as well so when they try to use the argument that this shouldn't be done in wartime it's an empty argument, especially since we're likely to be in a time of war for many administrations to come.
Old 05-31-2010, 04:06 PM SemperFly is offline  
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See, that's one of my points...simply repealing DADT won't miraculously change the behavior, and it might not be a good idea to do this when so many service people are deployed overseas. Then again, I'm open to the possibility that repealing DADT won't have much effect on the current status quo..
I don't think it will. Many of those service members currently deployed are gay and while I am not nor have ever claimed to have been deployed or in combat, I can't imagine that finding out someone is gay is going to affect the completion of the mission in any significant way.

Highly doubt that in ten years we'll be saying "we would've won that war on terror if sergeant twinkles there has just stayed in the closet".
Old 05-31-2010, 04:10 PM SemperFly is offline  
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They wouldnt. The ones that are already in, and making the sacrifice to have to hide their personal lives from everyone arent really the concern.

Itd be those who previously didnt join due to DADT that will now that are scaring people i think.

If a whole platoon of Marines are scared of one gay guy raping all of them, I'll be the first to call each and every one of them a goddamn pussy.

Hell, consider it additional hand to hand combat training. What're you gonna say when achmed busts into your tent with a raging hardon, devil dog?!? "NO YOU CANT DO THIS IM STRAIGHT"





edit: sorry, forgot i was in the pit...
Old 05-31-2010, 04:12 PM SemperFly is offline  
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They wouldnt. The ones that are already in, and making the sacrifice to have to hide their personal lives from everyone arent really the concern.

Itd be those who previously didnt join due to DADT that will now that are scaring people i think.

Again, nothing is keeping straight would-be-rapists out of the military.
And nobody's going to sign up to go through the shit they go through in the military just for a chance to rape some soldier/sailor/airman/marine ass when they could hit that just fine at any bar on a base without going through any of the trouble.
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Old 05-31-2010, 04:21 PM augusttremulous is offline  
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This is also a valid point. How would you like to be forced to sleep next to 10 random guys from the street that you didnt know anything about that you knew were attracted to you, and have to be unclothed around them august?

Wouldnt be very comfortable.

We can ask this question again, when she ____VOLUNTEERS___ for it.

fake edit: I'll sleep unclothed next to her just for examples sake
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Old 05-31-2010, 04:36 PM Straw Man is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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We can ask this question again, when she ____VOLUNTEERS___ for it.

fake edit: I'll sleep unclothed next to her just for examples sake

Note that in this situation she would have volunteered for it before those 10 guys would have been allowed in.
Old 05-31-2010, 05:18 PM SemperFly is offline  
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So should heterosexuals in the military also keep that shit to themselves?

and be forced out if they happen to let it slip out or someone rats on them?

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This.

Instead of getting rid of this I'd rather them subject heterosexuals to the same rules and regulations.

Are you people joking or stupid? we should kick everyone out of the military if anyone figures out what their sexual preference is?

For what fucking purpose? I didn't know that being a eunuch was a required part of military service.

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Some of the problem is that gay men tend to hit on other guys that arent gay. Hence, unwanted advances at the most basic of levels.

Why cant big strong men who are trained to kill deal with this? Seriously, you say, "no thanks, I don't swing that way." problem over.
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Old 05-31-2010, 05:24 PM pyramid is offline  
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They wouldnt. The ones that are already in, and making the sacrifice to have to hide their personal lives from everyone arent really the concern.

Itd be those who previously didnt join due to DADT that will now that are scaring people i think.

scaring them how? what the hell do you think gay people hitting on you looks like? Klingon mating rituals?

seriously, do you guys think the military is going to turn into "gay army" if we don't kick gay people out just for knowing they are gay?

Have you ever even met a gay person? A lot of you seem like you think gay people are crazy aliens from outer space or some shit.

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