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SemperFly
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bukkakeboy View Post
me too, and I also thought it was very funny ^^

(not that i laughed about it until i was omw home with my girlfriend )


why would you worry about that domon?

why on earth would that even cross your mind?
Gays are as different as anyone, they like a wide variety of men

and even if you "came across as gay", would you change?

"damn, i got hit on by that gay man, think i'd have to stop talking about how much I love shoes"

read everything he posted, he's not against it.
Old 05-31-2010, 11:11 PM SemperFly is offline  
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Bukkakeboy
 
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and?

even if he isn't against DNADT, he still felt the need to rethink how he could have come across as gay when he got hit on by a dude.

thats borderline something for sure
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Old 05-31-2010, 11:13 PM Bukkakeboy is offline  
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Forever Domon
 
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i was 18, i was self conscious about everything as all 18 year olds are, of course i would worry about it.

And of course i dont want to come across as gay if im not, thats just misleading.
Old 05-31-2010, 11:13 PM Forever Domon is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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Originally Posted by Tom Kazansky View Post
How exactly would it hurt morale?

"Oh man, Steve's gay? I totally don't want to fight anymore!"

Because like it or not, a lot of people in the military are socially conservative and religious. Those factors mean that they're going to have a hard time accepting someone who engages in something they find immoral or even a sin and an affront to their religion. I don't agree that such attitudes should matter but the bottom line is that they do matter when it comes to forming bonds of trust with the people that you're counting on to go into combat with.

The majority will not have a problem with it but there will be those that just can't accept it - just like there were those that couldn't accept blacks in their units and just like there are those that can't accept jews in their units - and it can lead to a breakdown in unit cohesion and morale. My argument is that these potentially few incidents do not justify the overall inherent discrimination in the policy.

However ridiculous of backwards or stupid you find their argument you cannot simply pretend that the situation does not exist. It's the prevailing attitude in a significant section of the military, the leadership (especially in the Marine Corps), the political body and in the population as a whole. Ignoring this fact is counter-productive to the goal of eliminating this policy and as intellectually dishonest as the fucking retards that continue to claim that being gay is a choice and thus not justifying said changes.
Old 05-31-2010, 11:17 PM SemperFly is offline  
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#124  

SemperFly
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domonbaylespam View Post
And of course i dont want to come across as gay if im not, thats just misleading.

The problem is the idea that there's any particular way to "come across as gay". Gay men are as diverse in their attitudes, personalities and mannerisms as straight men. The flamboyant flaming fagatron isn't representative of gay men anymore than the dumbfuck musclehead jock is representative of you str.....OH GOD I MEAN US, US STRAIGHT MEN


Old 05-31-2010, 11:19 PM SemperFly is offline  
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#125  

Forever Domon
 
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so you're saying gaydar doesnt exist!!! oh no.

Honestly though, its pretty easy to tell most the time for the out-of-the-closet guys. Its not lisps or limpwristing, but its how they talk with other guys, general behavior, etc.

No different than the fact that i talk to women differently than I do guys, and im sure thats noticable too.
Old 05-31-2010, 11:21 PM Forever Domon is offline  
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#126  

mohavewolfpup
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those who feel offended by this really need to DIAF.... I don't have a significant other, and I find it highly offensive to see straight people holding hands, cuddling/hugging in public, etc. I say we should ban all hetereosexual PDA's because I feel offended by it....

how's that for stupid? same applies in this case. I find it funny to see all the religious bible thumpers imposing a blatant will and agenda on homosexuals. That we are all out to rape our commanding officers, or become a commanding officer and then rape people below us just because they have a penis..... Crock of shit.

The more religion tries to impose blatant rights stomping laws on others who don't follow their status quo, the more I think they need to realize those they commit hate crimes on are perfectly capable of firing back using any means possible.....

I'm respectful of my sexuality towards others, hell I take more shit daily from you "straights/religious straights" then I ever dump on you in a life time.... I don't assume all guys want me touching them, hell I assume all guys are straight and don't even look at them in a sexual way...

We all don't chase guys around setting up cameras and peeking in your windows at 3 am watching you slip out of underwear... or eyeball all of you in a locker room... If you need to know, there is nothing worth eyeballing in a locker room. It's so sexy to see a guy with double chins and more flab then a jenny craig convention.... oh yeah... :gag:
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Old 05-31-2010, 11:30 PM mohavewolfpup is offline  
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Coqui
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SemperFly View Post
Because like it or not, a lot of people in the military are socially conservative and religious. Those factors mean that they're going to have a hard time accepting someone who engages in something they find immoral or even a sin and an affront to their religion. I don't agree that such attitudes should matter but the bottom line is that they do matter when it comes to forming bonds of trust with the people that you're counting on to go into combat with..

You mean like pre-marital sex?
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Old 06-01-2010, 03:24 AM Coqui is offline  
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#128  

Coqui
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mohavewolfpup View Post
I'm respectful of my sexuality towards others, hell I take more shit daily from you "straights/religious straights" then I ever dump on you in a life time.... I don't assume all guys want me touching them, hell I assume all guys are straight and don't even look at them in a sexual way...

Obviously according to this thread, since you're gay, anytime you're in an environment of mostly straight women, you can't get those girls off your junk. They keep grabbing you and hitting on you and won't leave you alone right?
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Old 06-01-2010, 03:27 AM Coqui is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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You mean like pre-marital sex?

For a few but given the political nature of the issue the anti-gay sentiment is a lot stronger in the large conservative base of the military. Again, not justified but that fact cannot be ignored nor can its effect on morale and unit cohesion be ignored.
Old 06-01-2010, 09:48 AM SemperFly is offline  
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#130  

Straw Man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Kazansky View Post
How exactly would it hurt morale?

"Oh man, Steve's gay? I totally don't want to fight anymore!"

Dear family,

The life in the front is terrible. We get an hour of sleep per day, maximum. No, it's not the constant shelling, nor do they deprive us of sleep.

It's just that Steve's gay.
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Old 06-01-2010, 10:03 AM Straw Man is offline  
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Coqui
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SemperFly View Post
For a few but given the political nature of the issue the anti-gay sentiment is a lot stronger in the large conservative base of the military. Again, not justified but that fact cannot be ignored nor can its effect on morale and unit cohesion be ignored.

I know what you meant. Sadly, intelligence isn't something they help with in the military. That's why morale and cohesion can be effected.
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Old 06-01-2010, 10:09 AM Coqui is offline  
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#132  

SemperFly
 
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It's not about intelligence, it's primarily a religious issue. There are a lot of very intelligent people in the military, including the front line infantry and combat arms roles. But most hard line social conservatives that hold these anti-gay sentiments use their faith as the excuse.

Now ruho and others are going to argue that said faith is evidence that this is indeed an issue of intelligence but they're retarded and you know better.
Old 06-01-2010, 10:31 AM SemperFly is offline  
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#133  

Coqui
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SemperFly View Post
It's not about intelligence, it's primarily a religious issue. There are a lot of very intelligent people in the military, including the front line infantry and combat arms roles. But most hard line social conservatives that hold these anti-gay sentiments use their faith as the excuse.

Now ruho and others are going to argue that said faith is evidence that this is indeed an issue of intelligence but they're retarded and you know better.

What I meant by intelligence in this matter was simply: Can you run? Yes. Can you shoot? Yes. Can you carry a fellow comrade out of a battlezone to safety to receive medical attention? Yes. Welcome to the suck. Those same people who use Christian faith as an excuse, should be having issues with members of the military being Muslim, Jewish, or atheist. To either be that hypocritical or to use a person's personal life as an issue for morale (espescially if it is never flaunted) signifies the lack of intelligence.
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Old 06-01-2010, 10:36 AM Coqui is offline  
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SemperFly
 
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It goes a bit beyond just running and shooting. Even basic infantry tactics, especially in urban terrain, require an average level of intelligence to learn. The more advanced stuff you see from recon teams, combat engineers, artillery batteries and LAV units can't be done by idiots that can just run and shoot. Air ops, intel, comm and cryptos set that bar even higher.

And before carrying said comrade out of a battle zone you have to be able to provide first aid.

I'm not saying the military is the bastion of intellectual thought but just because running and shooting are part of the mix does not mean intelligence is not required to do most of the jobs in question. There are some complete retards around but by and large the military is at least on par with if not smarter than the average citizen.

As for those people who use their faith as an excuse, many of them do have problems with muslims and atheists being around them but again, this issue is far more politicized and far more controversial than merely believing in a different sky monster or none at all. These people were also generally raised in very socially conservative households. You cannot expect someone who was raised for 18 years to think homosexuality is an abomination to simply flip and switch and forget all that.

There are some intelligent people that hold these opinions as well. Being smart does not preclude one from being discriminatory.
Old 06-01-2010, 11:52 AM SemperFly is offline  
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