A Polite Liberal?

[Patriotic Eagle]

Originally Posted by s0me0nesmind1

If you lack the self esteem, you simply have a weak mind. Im not saying there isn't potential for people, but to say there is anything stacked against blacks is just fucking old as balls, and just makes me say.



edit: Im not turning this into an 'affirmative action thread', the statement applies to anyone and everyone. In fact it coincides perfectly with the topic in that most liberals think this is a nation that favors certain groups.

Massive gaps in family income vs whites, much higher incarceration rates, institutionalized discrimination, self segregation (by whites), neglect of infrastructure and services in black neighborhoods, are all obviously things that are "stacked" against blacks.

[SemperFly]

Originally Posted by Patriotic Eagle

American liberals are anything but "radical"

right

[Golf(e)]

all the black people ive ever met are stupid therefore i conclude that all black people must be stupid

this thread is retarded.

gore and obama? conservative families offering help? parking spots?

none of this does anything to implicate that liberals are rude, nor that one has to do with the other, nor that conservatives should be any different.

I hate the OP.

[Frenetic]

Originally Posted by teh_rapist

ok, first - nothing against your professor.

second - you did not answer my question in the slightest. my question was not about him. it was about your phrasing, that's all. my question was what the difference between "real life experience" and "fake life experience" was, and what being a marine has to do with either - and you did not answer any of that, you just told a couple facts about him.

and one other thing. i recognize, and agree with the statement, that chanting slogans is immature, by no means qualifies as an argument, and should not be respected. but there is a big span between chanting slogans, and an "academic theory". furthermore - what exactly are you referring to as "academic theories", and what makes you think that arguments put forth in the academia are less based on facts than personal experience? (not to mention that theories are tested by experiment, and only by experiment).

again, note, this is pretty irrelevant to the topic, ur post just caught my eye and i figured i'd follow up on it.

If it was just an issue of phrasing, then okay, my bad. Being a marine was part of his experiences, but not all of them. The sentence comes off disjointed when the marine part is the focus of it, but it just popped in my head while I wrote it because you wouldn't know it by looking at him. My point was that he was a liberal from experience, not due to social conditioning to fit in a certain group. Some people say they fight for social justice without really knowing what it means, but this guy did. So I don't really have an answer for real vs. fake life experience. I mean sure, all life experience is real, but look at it this way: I'm fascinated by guns and I read up on them all the time. I can tell you the stats to some modern handguns, but I don't have the experience of a guy who uses them regularly. That dude probably knows the stats and also how they apply in real life.

And there's nothing wrong with academic theory on its own. I use plenty of rhetorical and discourse theory in my own thesis. But the theories, like any from the harder sciences, become worthless if they aren't bounced against reality every now and again. It's why feminist theory has come in different waves through the decades to better address women's issues of the time. I've met plenty of well meaning people put social theories in different scenarios to expose some great oppression with disastrous or insulting results, simply because they came about it in some patronizing way or they didn't understand the culture they were trying to help.

Originally Posted by s0me0nesmind1

If you lack the self esteem, you simply have a weak mind. Im not saying there isn't potential for people, but to say there is anything stacked against blacks is just fucking old as balls, and just makes me say.

edit: Im not turning this into an 'affirmative action thread', the statement applies to anyone and everyone. In fact it coincides perfectly with the topic in that most liberals think this is a nation that favors certain groups.

Look, there's no great conspiracy to keep the black man down, but the fact of the matter is that a lot of black urban youths (from my state, anyway, but I'm sure it applies to others) didn't choose their shitty public school education with burnt out teachers who inflate their grades to get them out of the system. They're not raised in an environment that values education like suburban kids, so they often don't normally pick up the studying or writing habits most freshmen take for granted. It doesn't mean they don't care about succeeding, it just means they often lack skills their schools should have taught them. Between flunking them out in the first semester and sending them back to the ghetto bitter, or giving them some help to succeed, I'm going to choose the latter as a teacher. They do the same amount of essays like everyone else, and they do more work because they have to constantly revise their essays to meet academic standards.

[bingstudent]

I've never met an impolite liberal but the only rapists I've ever met were all conservatives ....

[gee]

I think most liberals know that annoying the fuck out of everyone around them with their viewpoints isn't the best way to make a point, and tend to be passive, easygoing people. Which is why you never hear much about them.

I'm fairly liberal, and I hate loudmouthed/annoying liberals.

[Coqui]

There's dumbass liberals and dumbass conservatives, there's rude liberals and there's rude conservatives.

[Mixomatosys]

Originally Posted by Coqui

There's dumbass liberals and dumbass conservatives, there's rude liberals and there's rude conservatives.

/thread

[isugoat]

Originally Posted by Patriotic Eagle

Massive gaps in family income vs whites, much higher incarceration rates, institutionalized discrimination, self segregation (by whites), neglect of infrastructure and services in black neighborhoods, are all obviously things that are "stacked" against blacks.

those things all remain, but they are not barriers to success, just obstacles. yes, someone from the projects will have a more difficult path getting to college and becoming a successful businessman than some white kid from the suburbs, but the opportunity exists. the biggest obstacle, imo, is black culture. it is based upon an "us vs. them" mentality and promotes the misconception that the only way to succeed is to be a great athlete or to get rich at any cost (a big part of the high incarceration rate).
if "us vs. them" is the pervasive mentality, you can institute all the socialism your heart desires, but nothing will change. i won't go so far as to say you can't help someone that doesn't want to change, you can help them materially and physically, but if you can't change their culture, then all you've done is help individuals. give a man a fish and he eats for a day. teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime. it's the same concept.

[bingstudent]

+ YouTube Video

[SemperFly]

boondocks > *

[TheMorlock]

Originally Posted by Coqui

There's dumbass liberals and dumbass conservatives, there's rude liberals and there's rude conservatives.

I would agree but I have to go catch up on the national news flagging teabaggers and birthers for being idiots.

[Forever Domon]

Originally Posted by bingstudent

haha, and its perfectly ok to say all that because the producers are black too.

That show is great.

[UTRocketMan]

Originally Posted by isugoat

those things all remain, but they are not barriers to success, just obstacles. yes, someone from the projects will have a more difficult path getting to college and becoming a successful businessman than some white kid from the suburbs, but the opportunity exists. the biggest obstacle, imo, is black culture. it is based upon an "us vs. them" mentality and promotes the misconception that the only way to succeed is to be a great athlete or to get rich at any cost (a big part of the high incarceration rate).
if "us vs. them" is the pervasive mentality, you can institute all the socialism your heart desires, but nothing will change. i won't go so far as to say you can't help someone that doesn't want to change, you can help them materially and physically, but if you can't change their culture, then all you've done is help individuals. give a man a fish and he eats for a day. teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime. it's the same concept.

To go with the boondocks theme:

+ YouTube Video

I came from a high school with more minorities than whites, and it was tough to watch. Sure minority students have obstacles, some I would even say had odds so insurmountable that no average human, with an average amount of will power, could surpass them.

But the largest obstacle by far was the culture they were inundated in. If any black person was smart, or in honors classes, they were outcast and shunned, called "Uncle Toms". This is not an exception, every single one of them got this abuse, starting in middle school. Therefore, by the end of high school, the honors classes were predominately white and asian (which many said was due to racism ). Hispanic students received similar treatment, though I imagine it may be somewhat worse. They were ostracized if they spoke english well lol.

So much was done to encourage minority participation in honors classes. Promising minority students were personally tutored. And the amount of scholarships for minorities for college, simply because they were a minority, made me rage for quite a long time senior year. A couple managed to fight the abuse, and get to college (most of the football players, however, would get kicked out for stealing or fighting or stupid shit like that). But really, how many can succeed when every single day they are faced with a culture that tells them they are incorrect? That tells them that they are "pussies" for not making a lot of cash, right now, no matter what the cost?

There is something wrong there. Argue that whites caused it, I don't care, it's not my problem. But if that culture is not changed, no amount of help from the government will change it. No programs, no amount of money, will stop the cycle of poverty in the minority population if education is not only looked down upon, but actively put down. Instead, they'll keep trying to make money quickly, which usually makes them turn to crime.

It's an anecdote, so take it for what it is. But it's extremely common. That is the real situation in schools with large, poor minority populations. I was there, I saw it, I lived it. Hell, it's even happening younger now. I volunteered with the boys and girls club to tutor, and saw the same shit with elementary students.

[Millions]

I think it's a bumper sticker thing. I've noticed people with bumper stickers are much more forthcoming about the views plastered to the asses of their cars. I try to avoid them when I can.