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TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2[H]4U View Post
The book's writing has been unchanged since the orginial text was written by the Prophet (PBUH).

I believe this is incorrect.
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Old 09-09-2010, 11:30 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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pyramid
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Originally Posted by Pepsiholic View Post
I heard on the radio that he "contacted" the people who wanted to build it and they agreed to move it and he wouldn't burn any copies of the Quran, but the person reporting it specified that none of this was confirmed. Hell, I wouldn't back down from this swamp dweller.

It seems that the imam in florida promised the douchetard a meeting with the imam in new york to talk about the "mosque" but nutbag mcretard took that to mean that he had killed the "ground zero mosque" either through his own retardation or clever political maneuvering, as he has now turned his retarded little protest around into a ground zero mosque protest.

and just as I called it, Phelps and phamily is having none of this buIIshit about them not being the biggest, ignorantest and stupidest real life trolls in america and they are going to burn a bunch of Korans if the wimpy ass hate fagghorts at this retarded florida church don't carry through on their hate and ignorance.

http://www.everydaychristian.com/blogs/post/8315/

thanks again, religion.

Religion, making stupid people stupider since prehistory...
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Old 09-10-2010, 12:09 AM pyramid is offline  
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Redrum
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lol. this is all very telling.

a hick pastor and his inbred congregation excercise their first amendment rights doing something insensitive and antagonistic and a shit storm ensues, with everyone including top government officials publically telling them to stop, and they ultimately back off.

muslims excercise their first amendment rights by planning to build a mosque very close to gorund zero, something seen just as antagonistic and insensitive by many people, and the moment a dialouge about it arises accusations of bigotry are thrown around, all the while the people trying to build it refuse to back down or comprosmise at all, or even acknowledge that building so closely was probably not the best way to "promote interfaith understanding"...

cultural suicide ftw. remember, you have be sensitive to the sensibilities of others when you excercise your freedoms...as long the people you may end up insulting are not white, that is...
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Old 09-10-2010, 11:22 AM Redrum is offline  
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http://www.fireonquran.com/

also, iranians burn koran in iran.

now that's fucking balls.

collectively as a culture we have lost our teeth and are too willing to bend over to the whims of others.
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Old 09-10-2010, 11:24 AM Redrum is offline  
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http://www.fireonquran.com/

also, iranians burn koran in iran.

now that's fucking balls.

collectively as a culture we have lost our teeth and are too willing to bend over to the whims of others.
Collectively, as a culture, we've become vacuous, callous children - as evidenced by the vacant notion that burning a book constitutes a meaningful stand against something, and need to denigrate the Other in order to support our own shallow nationalist image.

Since I'm sure you will misunderstand, I'm not opposed to book burning on legal grounds; I may think you're a childish idiot for "standing up" in this manner, but I'd fight for your right to do so. But I do think it's an amazing display of not only rank xenophobia, religious intolerance, and perhaps racism, but collectivist tyranny. Law and liberty be damned, some brown people caused us suffering, so now you're going to be socially coerced into sacrificing your freedom so the collective can have the comfort of marginalizing "our" perceived enemy. People are such pieces of shit.
Old 09-10-2010, 11:36 AM ephekt is offline  
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Collectively, as a culture, we've become vacuous, callous children - as evidenced by the vacant notion that burning a book constitutes a meaningful stand against something, and need to denigrate the Other in order to support our own shallow nationalist image.

Since I'm sure you will misunderstand, I'm not opposed to book burning on legal grounds; I may think you're a childish idiot for "standing up" in this manner, but I'd fight for your right to do so. But I do think it's an amazing display of not only rank xenophobia, religious intolerance, and perhaps racism, but collectivist tyranny. Law and liberty be damned, some brown people caused us suffering, so now you're going to be socially coerced into sacrificing your freedom so the collective can have the comfort of marginalizing "our" perceived enemy. People are such pieces of shit.

i'm not necessarily standing up for it. just pointing out a double standard.

and the day we can not burn korans in america is the day we truly let the terrorists win. derp derp.
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Old 09-10-2010, 11:39 AM Redrum is offline  
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i'm not necessarily standing up for it. just pointing out a double standard.

and the day we can not burn korans in america is the day we truly let the terrorists win. derp derp.
There isn't a double standard though. None of us have a right to not be offended, while they have a right to expand (not build - this structure has existed in a mosque capacity for some time) on property they own/withing zoning regulations. Social outrage is rather irrelevant to this, and from what I've seen, little more than xenophobia. Your statement about bending to the whims of others is nothing more than a rhetorical device (especially since it implicitly sets up Islam/Arabs as "the enemy" to bend to). We're not bending by allowing citizens to exercise their rights. We'd be bending allowing the mosque to be sidelined.
Old 09-10-2010, 11:45 AM ephekt is offline  
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There isn't a double standard though. None of us have a right to not be offended, while they have a right to expand (not build - this structure has existed in a mosque capacity for some time) on property they own/withing zoning regulations. Social outrage is rather irrelevant to this, and from what I've seen, little more than xenophobia. Your statement about bending to the whims of others is nothing more than a rhetorical device (especially since it implicitly sets up Islam/Arabs as "the enemy" to bend to). We're not bending by allowing citizens to exercise their rights. We'd be bending allowing the mosque to be sidelined.

the pastor certainly is bending by not exercising his right to burn literature/fiction. if you consider the mosque having to be moved as an affront to the first amendment, you should feel no different in regard to this pastor being coerced not to exercise his rights to the first amendment as well. and that's the double standard.
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Old 09-10-2010, 11:54 AM Redrum is offline  
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the pastor certainly is bending by not exercising his right to burn literature/fiction. if you consider the mosque having to be moved as an affront to the first amendment, you should feel no different in regard to this pastor being coerced not to exercise his rights to the first amendment as well. and that's the double standard.
I can really call them.

Social outrage can't infringe on one's first amendment rights, as people voicing their distaste with a bunch of rednecks burning books is not a judicial measure. Forcing the mosque to move would be. So, again, there really isn't any double standard, unless we strip all context. If people want to tell the world how infuriated they are that muslims would dare to build on their own land in our great free country, they're perfectly within their right to do so. Just as the Muslim group is within theirs to build. The pastor's choice will be an exercise of his first amendment rights either way, particularly considering that nobody has stepped up and prevented him from media whoring all these weeks, or told him to cancel.
Old 09-10-2010, 12:09 PM ephekt is offline  
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I can really call them.

Social outrage can't infringe on one's first amendment rights, as people voicing their distaste with a bunch of rednecks burning books is not a judicial measure. Forcing the mosque to move would be. So, again, there really isn't any double standard, unless we strip all context. If people want to tell the world how infuriated they are that muslims would dare to build on their own land in our great free country, they're perfectly within their right to do so. Just as the Muslim group is within theirs to build. The pastor's choice will be an exercise of his first amendment rights either way, particularly considering that nobody has stepped up and prevented him from media whoring all these weeks, or told him to cancel.

gen petraus issued a very public statement telling him it's a bad idea, and it's even rumored that obama placed a phone call to him expressing concern. on the other end of the spectrum, expressing even the slightest of concern about the construction of the mosque generates mounds of butthurt among many people. if the developers ultimately decided that building so close would probably not be within their best interests that would be an exercise of their first amendment rights either way as well. i never suggested that mosque should be moved forcibly by a court order.
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Old 09-10-2010, 12:17 PM Redrum is offline  
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gen petraus issued a very public statement telling him it's a bad idea, and it's even rumored that obama placed a phone call to him expressing concern.
Non-authoratative statements are not the same thing as a govt official telling (read: ordering) him to stop. Nobody prevented him from profiting from this, or forced him to reconsider.

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on the other end of the spectrum, expressing even the slightest of concern about the construction of the mosque generates mounds of butthurt among many people.
Butthurt about a minority group exercising their rights churns up butthurt about xenophobia, tyranny etc. Wonder why! And ime it hasn't been 'the slightest concern' since those inclined to be 'concerned' about someone exercising their rights are typically biased idiots or looking to impose their views on others. Well, that and the thousands of flyers, religious figures etc essentially calling these Muslims terrorists.
Old 09-10-2010, 12:52 PM ephekt is offline  
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And ime it hasn't been 'the slightest concern' since those inclined to be 'concerned' about someone exercising their rights are typically biased idiots or looking to impose their views on others.

except when it comes to people expressing concern about a pastor wishing to burn korans, right? then in that the case the people voicing concern aren't biased idiots, but morally superior paragons of multiculturalism such as yourself who have a deep compassion, empathy and sensitivity for the concerns of those poor oppressed downtrodden muslims who are perfectly reasonable all the time and not dogmatic in the slightest....

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Old 09-10-2010, 01:06 PM Redrum is offline  
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i like how you also keep on throwing around the word xenophobia, elements of xenophobia work swimmingly for countries like switzerland and japan, and i'd much prefer full blown xenophobia to today's atmosphere of complete cultural/moral relativism and having to constantly apologize for being a westerner/american...
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Old 09-10-2010, 01:10 PM Redrum is offline  
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i like how you also keep on throwing around the word xenophobia, elements of xenophobia work swimmingly for countries like switzerland and japan
I know expats in both countries who have integrated quite well. Actually, I discussed this topic a while back with a couple that moved to Switzerland in 08 and their view was that this was largely a myth. Typically, the Nordic states appear to be racist/xenophobic to outsiders, but it has more to do with acceptance of the host culture than anything else. Immigrants tend to want to move into a new host and accept it's culture piece meal while creating microcosms of their origin country, and demanding that they receive certain cultural concessions. Immigrants who make an effort to learn the language and integrate, at least in this couple's experience, are treated like anyone else.

Since I'm sure you're going to mention it, Islam does have this component (as do most cultures - look at China town, little Italy etc), but I'd argue that this is not the case here, since as I said, this mosque has been there for quite some time. I believe it actually existed prior to 9/11, but regardless it was never an issue until Christian pundits decided to turn it into the culture war issue du jour a few months ago.

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and i'd much prefer full blown xenophobia
Color me unsurprised.

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to today's atmosphere of complete cultural/moral relativism and having to constantly apologize for being a westerner/american...
I hate to break it to you, but with little exception both of these things are intrinsically relative. Suffice it to say that the traditionalist view of a single, cohesive culture has been thoroughly refuted by empirical sociology. I'd love to discuss the ethical issue, but I have a feeling it'd be a waste of my time. Just as a basic judge of your knowledge, do you subscribe to a consequentialist or deontological ethical system, and why?


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except when it comes to people expressing concern about a pastor wishing to burn korans, right?
Again, you seem to lack perspective. Both parties may be exercising their rights, but the two arguments are not of equal merit. On one side, you have a group that has done nothing wrong ethically or otherwise, wanting to exercise a right this pastor and his supporters take for granted. On the other, you have a group espousing 'concern' that this group wished to exercise said right in the form of collectivist rage, hatred, xenophobia, guilt by association, and in some cases a genuine will to have this group's rights stripped. Both should be allowed to exercise their rights to the full extent of the law, but placing hatred and xenophobic scare tactics on equal footing as legal construction is, quite frankly, ethically and pragmatically absurd.

And, as I said, nobody has actually come close to infringing on the rights of these xenophobes, so there isn't any double standard.

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then in that the case the people voicing concern aren't biased idiots, but morally superior paragons of multiculturalism such as yourself who have a deep compassion, empathy and sensitivity for the concerns of those poor oppressed downtrodden muslims who are perfectly reasonable all the time and not dogmatic in the slightest....
OH NO they're biased towards the constitution and civility! What tyranny and closed mindedness!

The fact that you have to resort to fallacious arguments to support your view demonstrate how weakly held it is. I think you realize this; must realize this, otherwise your arguments would live up to your rhetoric.

But since my worldview is of such concern to you, I'm actually an atheist. One less religious institution would be a good thing in my view. But I'd much prefer a whole lot less angry bigots.

Last edited by ephekt; 09-10-2010 at 02:31 PM..
Old 09-10-2010, 02:17 PM ephekt is offline  
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joemama
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OH NO they're biased towards the constitution and civility! What tyranny and closed mindedness!

The fact that you have to resort to fallacious arguments to support your view demonstrate how weakly held it is. I think you realize this; must realize this, otherwise your arguments would live up to your rhetoric.

But since my worldview is of such concern to you, I'm actually an atheist. One less religious institution would be a good thing in my view. But I'd much prefer a whole lot less angry bigots.
I think his point was that you don't seem concerned by millions of angry bigots on the other side. Sure the Quaran burning thing is silly...but nobody seems to want to address exactly why a General and the U.S. president felt compelled to weigh in on the issue...or even why this is much bigger deal than it should be.
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Old 09-10-2010, 02:52 PM joemama is offline  
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