General [M]ayhem

Go Back   General [M]ayhem > Real Time Sub-Forums > The Pit
Register Members List Mark Forums Read [M]erchandise Calendar

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Redrum
Crate&Barrel Roll
 
Redrum's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ephekt View Post
Regardless, we can't continue spending ~50% of GDP on 'defense' without raising SOMETHING and cutting spending. The demagogues, especially the 'hard on terror' security theater types, don't seem to realize this.

lolwut

as a function of gdp the us has some of the lowest military spending in the world, even though it eclipses all other countries by far in terms of raw dollars.

unless you're talking about 50% of the federal budget, which even if it's true, is not 50% of the gdp.
__________________
lol
Old 09-16-2010, 08:54 AM Redrum is offline  
Reply With Quote
#31  

Advertisement [Remove Advertisement]

ephekt
 
Yeah, I meant budget.

Lowest defense spending though? Are you serious? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_expenditures
Old 09-16-2010, 09:00 AM ephekt is offline  
Reply With Quote
#32  

Redrum
Crate&Barrel Roll
 
Redrum's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ephekt View Post
Yeah, I meant budget.

Lowest defense spending though? Are you serious? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_expenditures

did you read my post? as a function of GDP spending the USA is down there, however in terms of raw dollars it is on top, saying that it was the lowest is a mistake on my part.

Rank↓ ↓ Country↓ Military expenditure, 2009[2]↓ % of GDP, 2008↓
94 Eritrea Eritrea 327,000,000d 20.9%d
78 Georgia (country) Georgia 665,000,000 8.5%
8 Saudi Arabia Saudi Arabia 39,257,000,000 8.2%
41 Oman Oman 4,003,000,000 7.7%
17 Israel Israel 14,309,000,000 7.0%
86 Chad Chad 412,000,000 6.6%
19 United Arab Emirates United Arab Emirates 13,052,000,000a 5.9%a
66 Jordan Jordan 1,392,000,000 5.9%
43 Iraq Iraq 3,814,000,000 5.4%
54 Sudan Sudan 1,971,000,000c 4.4%c
1 United States United States 663,255,000,000 4.3%
68 Yemen Yemen 1,196,000,000 4.2%
25 Singapore Singapore 7,966,000,000 4.1%
135 Burundi Burundi 43,900,000 4.0%
65 Lebanon Lebanon 1,408,000,000 3.9%
93 Brunei Brunei 336,000,000 3.9%
63 Azerbaijan Azerbaijan 1,434,000,000 3.8%
144 Guinea-Bissau Guinea-Bissau 16,800,000g 3.8
__________________
lol
Old 09-16-2010, 09:11 AM Redrum is offline  
Reply With Quote
#33  

ephekt
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redrum View Post
did you read my post?
I did indeed, which is why I knew that...
Quote:
saying that it was the lowest is a mistake
We're not the top, but we're still in the top 50%.

Fair enough though
Old 09-16-2010, 09:16 AM ephekt is offline  
Reply With Quote
#34  

Gibonius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redrum View Post
did you read my post? as a function of GDP spending the USA is down there, however in terms of raw dollars it is on top, saying that it was the lowest is a mistake on my part.

Rank↓ ↓ Country↓ Military expenditure, 2009[2]↓ % of GDP, 2008↓
94 Eritrea Eritrea 327,000,000d 20.9%d
78 Georgia (country) Georgia 665,000,000 8.5%
8 Saudi Arabia Saudi Arabia 39,257,000,000 8.2%
41 Oman Oman 4,003,000,000 7.7%
17 Israel Israel 14,309,000,000 7.0%
86 Chad Chad 412,000,000 6.6%
19 United Arab Emirates United Arab Emirates 13,052,000,000a 5.9%a
66 Jordan Jordan 1,392,000,000 5.9%
43 Iraq Iraq 3,814,000,000 5.4%
54 Sudan Sudan 1,971,000,000c 4.4%c
1 United States United States 663,255,000,000 4.3%
68 Yemen Yemen 1,196,000,000 4.2%
25 Singapore Singapore 7,966,000,000 4.1%
135 Burundi Burundi 43,900,000 4.0%
65 Lebanon Lebanon 1,408,000,000 3.9%
93 Brunei Brunei 336,000,000 3.9%
63 Azerbaijan Azerbaijan 1,434,000,000 3.8%
144 Guinea-Bissau Guinea-Bissau 16,800,000g 3.8

Comparing us to Third World countries is kind of meaningless. We're near the top of developed nations, only Israel spends more per capita.
Old 09-16-2010, 11:14 AM Gibonius is offline  
Reply With Quote
#35  

ephekt
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
Comparing us to Third World countries is kind of meaningless. We're near the top of developed nations, only Israel spends more per capita.
I wonder if they count the ~7mil/day we give Israel in defense aid in this.

Also, we account for 40% of WORLDWIDE military spending.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militar...deral_spending
Old 09-16-2010, 11:56 AM ephekt is offline  
Reply With Quote
#36  

joemama
Watch Toomer burn those cowboys. How bout them cowboys?
 
joemama's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
Comparing us to Third World countries is kind of meaningless. We're near the top of developed nations, only Israel spends more per capita.
We could always announce to Canada, Western Europe and any number of backwater pissant countries we call "allies" that starting on X date they will be totally responsible for their own defense...and we wish them well in their endeavors. Doing this we could slash our denfense spending by more than half and have plenty of money to blow on bottomless pit social programs.
__________________
Rapid-fire double bass of the GenMay dru[M]mers collective

Syndrome of a Downs- drums/songwriter
._--_|\
/ииииииии\
\_.--Bumfuck Egypt
.......v
Old 09-16-2010, 02:28 PM joemama is offline  
Reply With Quote
#37  

ephekt
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama View Post
We could always announce to Canada, Western Europe and any number of backwater pissant countries we call "allies" that starting on X date they will be totally responsible for their own defense...and we wish them well in their endeavors. Doing this we could slash our denfense spending by more than half and have plenty of money to blow on bottomless pit social programs.
American exceptionalism, fuck yeah.

It'd make more sense to close most foreign bases and spend on defense rather than cowboying in the desert.
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0115-08.htm
Quote:
It's not easy to assess the size or exact value of our empire of bases. Official records on these subjects are misleading, although instructive. According to the Defense Department's annual "Base Structure Report" for fiscal year 2003, which itemizes foreign and domestic U.S. military real estate, the Pentagon currently owns or rents 702 overseas bases in about 130 countries and HAS another 6,000 bases in the United States and its territories. Pentagon bureaucrats calculate that it would require at least $113.2 billion to replace just the foreign bases -- surely far too low a figure but still larger than the gross domestic product of most countries -- and an estimated $591,519.8 million to replace all of them. The military high command deploys to our overseas bases some 253,288 uniformed personnel, plus an equal number of dependents and Department of Defense civilian officials, and employs an additional 44,446 locally hired foreigners. The Pentagon claims that these bases contain 44,870 barracks, hangars, hospitals, and other buildings, which it owns, and that it leases 4,844 more.
Old 09-16-2010, 03:47 PM ephekt is offline  
Reply With Quote
#38  

joemama
Watch Toomer burn those cowboys. How bout them cowboys?
 
joemama's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ephekt View Post
American exceptionalism, fuck yeah.

It'd make more sense to close most foreign bases and spend on defense rather than cowboying in the desert.
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0115-08.htm
I agree that some foreign bases don't make sense anymore, but closing "most" of them would severly limit our ability to easily project military power to parts of the world where there are American interests to protect. If we could get certain countries to stop basing their defense budgets on how much the U.S. spends (knowing that we will be there within minutes if needed) then some of those could go away as well.
__________________
Rapid-fire double bass of the GenMay dru[M]mers collective

Syndrome of a Downs- drums/songwriter
._--_|\
/ииииииии\
\_.--Bumfuck Egypt
.......v
Old 09-16-2010, 04:04 PM joemama is offline  
Reply With Quote
#39  

ephekt
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama View Post
I agree that some foreign bases don't make sense anymore, but closing "most" of them would severly limit our ability to easily project military power to parts of the world where there are American interests to protect. If we could get certain countries to stop basing their defense budgets on how much the U.S. spends (knowing that we will be there within minutes if needed) then some of those could go away as well.
There are very few strategical posts outside of conus. Off the top of my head, I can think of Saudi, Korea and maybe Japan. I'm sure there are a few others but 'most' would likely be appropriate imo. Furthermore, with rapid deployment units stateside troops can be pretty much anywhere in the world within 48 hrs. I know; I've been there. The majority of these foreign bases staff full garrison units as well; they're not merely jump off points.

As for weening the world off our teet, isn't the conservative mantra that you have to starve that? So long as we play world police these countries are not going to step up.
Old 09-16-2010, 04:37 PM ephekt is offline  
Reply With Quote
#40  

Straw Man
RuHo
And my head I'd be scratchin' while my thoughts were busy hatchin; If I only had a brain......
 
Straw Man's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama View Post
We could always announce to Canada, Western Europe and any number of backwater pissant countries we call "allies" that starting on X date they will be totally responsible for their own defense...and we wish them well in their endeavors. Doing this we could slash our denfense spending by more than half and have plenty of money to blow on bottomless pit social programs.

I'm sure western europe would tremble in their boots
__________________
"dogs came to man to make friends and help us hunt and guard unlike pigs"
-lolergay
Old 09-16-2010, 04:59 PM Straw Man is offline  
Reply With Quote
#41  

Redrum
Crate&Barrel Roll
 
Redrum's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
Comparing us to Third World countries is kind of meaningless. We're near the top of developed nations, only Israel spends more per capita.

israel, uae, and saudi arabia are hardly third world countries...

since it's so meaningless i'll remember when military spending between china and the usa are compared, seeing as how china is still third world and all given its ppp
__________________
lol
Old 09-16-2010, 06:18 PM Redrum is offline  
Reply With Quote
#42  

Redrum
Crate&Barrel Roll
 
Redrum's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RuHo View Post
I'm sure western europe would tremble in their boots

nato foots much of the bill for defense spending in places like france. that's one of the reasons why parisians enjoy a 30 hour work week. that, and the secret wars they profit from in africa...
__________________
lol
Old 09-16-2010, 06:22 PM Redrum is offline  
Reply With Quote
#43  

Gibonius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redrum View Post
israel, uae, and saudi arabia are hardly third world countries...

since it's so meaningless i'll remember when military spending between china and the usa are compared, seeing as how china is still third world and all given its ppp
Third World may not have been the exact right choice of words, but it's obvious enough which countries we should care about in this discussion. The UAE and Saudi Arabia are not competing with the US for international influence, nor is fucking Eritrea or any of the other countries anywhere near us on that list. The countries we might actually care about, like Russia, China, etc, spend a whole lot less than we do, both per capita and in terms of absolute dollars.

We spend more than any other serious military power in the world, by a very large margin, in any metric.
Old 09-16-2010, 06:37 PM Gibonius is offline  
Reply With Quote
#44  

Straw Man
RuHo
And my head I'd be scratchin' while my thoughts were busy hatchin; If I only had a brain......
 
Straw Man's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redrum View Post
nato foots much of the bill for defense spending in places like france. that's one of the reasons why parisians enjoy a 30 hour work week. that, and the secret wars they profit from in africa...
yes lets blame france for the bloated fucking military
__________________
"dogs came to man to make friends and help us hunt and guard unlike pigs"
-lolergay
Old 09-16-2010, 07:26 PM Straw Man is offline  
Reply With Quote
#45  

Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:28 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.