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joemama
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Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
Third World may not have been the exact right choice of words, but it's obvious enough which countries we should care about in this discussion. The UAE and Saudi Arabia are not competing with the US for international influence, nor is fucking Eritrea or any of the other countries anywhere near us on that list. The countries we might actually care about, like Russia, China, etc, spend a whole lot less than we do, both per capita and in terms of absolute dollars.

We spend more than any other serious military power in the world, by a very large margin, in any metric.
Because Russia and China would really open their books and tell the rest of the world exactly what they spend. Hell, for that matter even the U.S. isn't totally open about spending..there are some hefty "black budgets" that we can only guess at.
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Old 09-16-2010, 10:08 PM joemama is offline  
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joemama
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yes lets blame france for the bloated fucking military
Nobody is blaming any other country for America's military spending, I'm just saying that we could save a metric fuckton of money by giving notice that we'll no longer be world police outside our borders unless American interests are directly threatened. And having an ally being bullied by a neighbor wouldn't be considered an "interest".
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Old 09-16-2010, 10:12 PM joemama is offline  
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Originally Posted by joemama View Post
Nobody is blaming any other country for America's military spending, I'm just saying that we could save a metric fuckton of money by giving notice that we'll no longer be world police outside our borders unless American interests are directly threatened. And having an ally being bullied by a neighbor wouldn't be considered an "interest".

Whaddayamean not? You're saying the defence budget is HUEG and implying you're doing some charitable favor to US allies.

NATO most of all, protects american interest, and most of the costs of NATO are directly from protecting that american interest. If you want to save money, stop killing shitskins overseas.
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Old 09-17-2010, 07:08 AM Straw Man is offline  
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joemama
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Originally Posted by RuHo View Post
Whaddayamean not? You're saying the defence budget is HUEG and implying you're doing some charitable favor to US allies.

NATO most of all, protects american interest, and most of the costs of NATO are directly from protecting that american interest. If you want to save money, stop killing shitskins overseas.
You work on getting the shitskins to stop giving us reasons to kill them and we all WIN.

edit- you may be surprised at how many "American" interests are the same as those of your own country..
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Old 09-17-2010, 08:13 AM joemama is offline  
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Originally Posted by joemama View Post
You work on getting the shitskins to stop giving us reasons to kill them and we all WIN.

edit- you may be surprised at how many "American" interests are the same as those of your own country..

Actually you're kind of fucking failing here (I guess it shows your rudimentary information), and I hate to inform you finnistan isn't a nato country and the last time we genuinely gained significant military assistance from fucking anyone, it was from the nazis back in the 40's. I guess you probably knew that, so I don't really see why you'd pretend otherwise?

NATO in europe, above all these days, is the wet dream of the right winger who still thinks the communist boogeyman is coming out of the closet. That's about it. Next up you're going to ask for europeans to be grateful for the CIA and MOSSAD.

I guess you could also explain how in the fucking world do I benefit from american interest, which seems to be killing shitskins in a part of the world they don't reside in. Saying stupid shit like that is tantamount to me saying the US should foot the bill on immigration costs for Yurop. It's some perverse cultural supremacy thing right, but you're afraid to say it out loud or something....?
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Old 09-17-2010, 08:26 AM Straw Man is offline  
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Because Russia and China would really open their books and tell the rest of the world exactly what they spend. Hell, for that matter even the U.S. isn't totally open about spending..there are some hefty "black budgets" that we can only guess at.

These numbers are in % of GDP, we don't need exact numbers. Unless our estimates are off by orders of magnitude, we're still spending a hell of a lot more than either by any metric.
Old 09-17-2010, 09:04 AM Gibonius is offline  
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joemama
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Actually you're kind of fucking failing here (I guess it shows your rudimentary information), and I hate to inform you finnistan isn't a nato country and the last time we genuinely gained significant military assistance from fucking anyone, it was from the nazis back in the 40's. I guess you probably knew that, so I don't really see why you'd pretend otherwise?

NATO in europe, above all these days, is the wet dream of the right winger who still thinks the communist boogeyman is coming out of the closet. That's about it. Next up you're going to ask for europeans to be grateful for the CIA and MOSSAD.

I guess you could also explain how in the fucking world do I benefit from american interest, which seems to be killing shitskins in a part of the world they don't reside in. Saying stupid shit like that is tantamount to me saying the US should foot the bill on immigration costs for Yurop. It's some perverse cultural supremacy thing right, but you're afraid to say it out loud or something....?
Funny thing about NATO is that you don't actually have to be a member to benefit from the deterrent factor...just have strong dimplomatic/economic ties to the countries that are members. Your politicians may never openly say it, but the political/economic ties of all "democratic" (in whatever form) capitalist nations are more closely tied than you realize. Afraid? AMERICA FUCK YEAH!!!!
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Old 09-17-2010, 09:43 AM joemama is offline  
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Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
These numbers are in % of GDP, we don't need exact numbers. Unless our estimates are off by orders of magnitude, we're still spending a hell of a lot more than either by any metric.
Maybe thats because even the people who sweep floors and take out the trash at major U.S. defense contractors are making $25 an hour or more? I bet even some of the higher level people producing Chinese/Russian military hardware/tech would love to be making that much..
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Old 09-17-2010, 09:56 AM joemama is offline  
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Originally Posted by joemama View Post
Funny thing about NATO is that you don't actually have to be a member to benefit from the deterrent factor...just have strong dimplomatic/economic ties to the countries that are members. Your politicians may never openly say it, but the political/economic ties of all "democratic" (in whatever form) capitalist nations are more closely tied than you realize. Afraid? AMERICA FUCK YEAH!!!!



You probably really believe what you said and that's kind of sad. Funny but sad
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Old 09-17-2010, 01:15 PM Straw Man is offline  
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joemama
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You probably really believe what you said and that's kind of sad. Funny but sad
What's really sad is you somehow believe that isn't true....I guess your 35k strong standing army is good enough to deter anyone from approaching the Finn border without permission..
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Old 09-17-2010, 01:39 PM joemama is offline  
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What's really sad is you somehow believe that isn't true....I guess your 35k strong standing army is good enough to deter anyone from approaching the Finn border without permission..

The smell alone is not enough deterrent?
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Old 09-17-2010, 01:50 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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What's really sad is you somehow believe that isn't true....I guess your 35k strong standing army is good enough to deter anyone from approaching the Finn border without permission..

That's not really the point. You perhaps seem to be under the impression non-NATO countries like the baltic ones, or finland for that matter, are under some odd fucking gratitude for you people having a bloated army. You also seem to be under the impression that provides us with some extra security. While NATO wasn't around in the 40's, history shows these absurd notions you have regarding some democratic cultural hegemony to be downright rubbish. It's a pretty fucking retarded thing to think of, with little to no basis. So basically, you're paying for the largest military budget in the world, and then you sit on the internet and cry how others should do that aswell, or chip into it. Because your interest (getting people killed, including yours) is supposed to be my interest. It isn't.

Perhaps we have 35k active members with the few hundred thousand reservists, I don't see what that has to do with anything. But then again you're the dumbass that thinks others should pay for you guys to have your innards splattered in some road in Kandahar and be grateful for it
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Old 09-17-2010, 02:57 PM Straw Man is offline  
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The smell alone is not enough deterrent?

As an ex-military who's now borderline insane and a traumatized alcoholic, this is pretty amusing. The nationality insults don't really work but you two can keep it up if you like. I'll probably lose sleep over the fact that an alcoholic and an imperialist agree that some counries miltaries are too small.
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Old 09-17-2010, 02:59 PM Straw Man is offline  
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joemama
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Originally Posted by RuHo View Post
That's not really the point. You perhaps seem to be under the impression non-NATO countries like the baltic ones, or finland for that matter, are under some odd fucking gratitude for you people having a bloated army. You also seem to be under the impression that provides us with some extra security. While NATO wasn't around in the 40's, history shows these absurd notions you have regarding some democratic cultural hegemony to be downright rubbish. It's a pretty fucking retarded thing to think of, with little to no basis. So basically, you're paying for the largest military budget in the world, and then you sit on the internet and cry how others should do that aswell, or chip into it. Because your interest (getting people killed, including yours) is supposed to be my interest. It isn't.

Perhaps we have 35k active members with the few hundred thousand reservists, I don't see what that has to do with anything. But then again you're the dumbass that thinks others should pay for you guys to have your innards splattered in some road in Kandahar and be grateful for it
Where in any of my posts did I say that any country should help pay for our military spending or increase their own? I don't give a rats ass if Finland has 35k or just 35 guys sitting around in tree houses with slingshots...and they have to buy their own weapons. I guaran-fuckin-tee you that if Finland (or any other country) REALLY felt like they couldn't depend on allies to help out, and they were bordered by countries that were less than trustworthy....military spending would skyrocket from present levels. I really don't know if Finland has any natural resources that anyone would want (Russia wouldn't mind having a few more shipyards though..) and it really doesn't matter...the modern way of invasion doesn't always involve troops on the ground sweeping over a shared border.
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Old 09-17-2010, 04:38 PM joemama is offline  
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Originally Posted by joemama View Post
Where in any of my posts did I say that any country should help pay for our military spending or increase their own?
The part where you said:
"We could always announce to Canada, Western Europe and any number of backwater pissant countries we call "allies" that starting on X date they will be totally responsible for their own defense...and we wish them well in their endeavors. Doing this we could slash our denfense spending by more than half and have plenty of money to blow on bottomless pit social programs."



It's downright suggesting you people have a hardon for the military for external reasons relating to allies.

It's pretty hilarious.
Quote:
I don't give a rats ass if Finland has 35k or just 35 guys sitting around in tree houses with slingshots...and they have to buy their own weapons. I guaran-fuckin-tee you that if Finland (or any other country) REALLY felt like they couldn't depend on allies to help out, and they were bordered by countries that were less than trustworthy....military spending would skyrocket from present levels.
source: out of my ass

Oh and feel free to go ask Georgia (if you like recent examples instead of the dozens from last century) how much a prowestern, pro-NATO on-the-brink-of-joining buddybuddy alliance is worth, and how much it costs, regardless of your military budget.

Similarly, I'm sure you'd be delighted to spend your money in defending Turkey because it's in the contract. Suppose a completely hypothetical russian invasion for some fucking reason. Just so that you remember, they're pretty islamic, them turkish people. I'm sure you'd be the first one to ask that this contract be honoured because you just have to be able to depend on your allies

Quote:
I really don't know if Finland has any natural resources that anyone would want (Russia wouldn't mind having a few more shipyards though..) and it really doesn't matter...the modern way of invasion doesn't always involve troops on the ground sweeping over a shared border.
O wells at least I can sleep my nights well since in case of a russian invasion or carpet bombing the glorious americans would come and help just because they're that great!!!11
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Old 09-17-2010, 07:08 PM Straw Man is offline  
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