General [M]ayhem

Go Back   General [M]ayhem > Real Time Sub-Forums > The Pit
Register Members List Mark Forums Read [M]erchandise Calendar

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Vendetta
That's "Doctor Vendetta" to you
 
Vendetta's Avatar
 
Masaru Emoto: another fraud, with no knowledge of proper experimental research.

Another fraud in the long line of frauds you love, you worship, you cherish.

You are pathetic.
Old 05-27-2011, 05:16 PM Vendetta is offline  
Reply With Quote
#61  

Advertisement [Remove Advertisement]

TheMorlock
Contrary to my previous title I never fucked Inf's mother
 
TheMorlock's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dio View Post
Quantum theory has proved that the observer of an experiment can have an impact on the outcome of the experiment. Why is it so much more of a stretch to imply that the energetic state and predispositions of the observer could also impact the outcome of a given expiriment?

In the world of Magick Ritual and Yogic Tradition, this kind of thinking is common sense for everything.

It is an old world viewpoint to believe that we are at any point only dealing with a static universe, disconnected from our precept. The truth is, everything is interconnected. When you are measuring the drop speed of a ball, obviously the experiment has too many other more powerful forces than the observers energetic state to affect the outcome. But when dealing with something as delicate as the molding of rice, a slight energetic subltey in the observer could vary outcomes.

Yeah and thunder and lightning are the sounds of angry gods and tidal waves are caused by angry gods and flies are generated by the mere presence of evil and filth. Etc etc. We discarded that shit thinking for a reason.
__________________
There is nothing to worry about. Legions of wise people with nothing but all of best interests at heart are ensuring our future of love and infinite bliss. Go watch TV :Bflaps
http://www.genmay.com/showthread.php?t=572323
Old 05-27-2011, 10:36 PM TheMorlock is offline  
Reply With Quote
#62  

Golf(e)
 
Golf(e)'s Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dio View Post
Quantum theory has proved that the observer of an experiment can have an impact on the outcome of the experiment. Why is it so much more of a stretch to imply that the energetic state and predispositions of the observer could also impact the outcome of a given expiriment?

In the world of Magick Ritual and Yogic Tradition, this kind of thinking is common sense for everything.

It is an old world viewpoint to believe that we are at any point only dealing with a static universe, disconnected from our precept. The truth is, everything is interconnected. When you are measuring the drop speed of a ball, obviously the experiment has too many other more powerful forces than the observers energetic state to affect the outcome. But when dealing with something as delicate as the molding of rice, a slight energetic subltey in the observer could vary outcomes.

"the energetic state of the observer"

What does that mean? You're being vague and using buzz words that sound great but practically speaking mean nothing. I get it. You have a certain spiritual disposition, thats cool, and some cases of scientific application, i think, may be severely lacking in just that (provided it's quelled with logic at every turn). And in spite of your poor articulation and overall misinterpretation of these ideas, at base i can i see where youre coming from and encourage you to continue with your thought experiments (though you seem apt to fool yourself, but live and learn i suppose).

But see.. when you say shit like, "when dealing with something as delicate as the molding of rice, a slight energetic subltey in the observer could vary outcomes."

I mean.. no. Says who? Maybe. I really dont know what an "energetic subtlety" is, but it doesnt even matter because.. no. The molding of rice may be a more intricate process than the dropping of a ball, but the factors which determine each are equally set in stone, and I very much doubt the optimism or pessimism or neutrality of an observer has any influence on the outcome.

There may be some insight at least in the idea expressed in the title of this thread. Potentially novel experiments are maybe sometimes bogged down and hampered by the unrelenting demand for worth and proof. Of course if you conduct an experiment, reach a conclusion, yet for some reason have no way of proving said conclusion to anyone else.. well... that really means fuck all then, doesnt it? "You had to be there man" But, perhaps putting creativity, spirituality, even artistry, into research could, at least in some cases, prove beneficial, and lead to unexpected insight.

Or uh.. maybe not. starting to sound too much like the op, fuck it
__________________
And motion soared in every direction, causing a tidal wave of thought to crash dumbly through walls, and made passageways where previously was occupied by the stillness of mathematics in its purest manifestation of white reflection on white backdrop
Old 05-28-2011, 12:44 AM Golf(e) is offline  
Reply With Quote
#63  

Sabbster]#
I have a huge penis.
 
Sabbster]#'s Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoObMeIsTeR View Post
Does the rice get moldy if you write the word mold on the container?

So much hate and anger in this thread. It's about time something made me laugh.
Old 05-28-2011, 01:42 AM Sabbster]# is offline  
Reply With Quote
#64  

TheMorlock
Contrary to my previous title I never fucked Inf's mother
 
TheMorlock's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabbster]# View Post
So much hate and anger in this thread. It's about time something made me laugh.

It's because he used to make thread after thread after thread about his fantasy version of how the world works. Then would contaminate all other threads with the same shit.

If he gets hit by a buss and dies it's going to be hard to find a small enough bell.
__________________
There is nothing to worry about. Legions of wise people with nothing but all of best interests at heart are ensuring our future of love and infinite bliss. Go watch TV :Bflaps
http://www.genmay.com/showthread.php?t=572323
Old 05-28-2011, 02:15 AM TheMorlock is offline  
Reply With Quote
#65  

Sabbster]#
I have a huge penis.
 
Sabbster]#'s Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMorlock View Post
It's because he used to make thread after thread after thread about his fantasy version of how the world works. Then would contaminate all other threads with the same shit.

If he gets hit by a buss and dies it's going to be hard to find a small enough bell.

Yeah, I pretty much gathered that he was batshit crazy just from reading the first couple of paragraphs in this thread.
Old 05-28-2011, 03:06 AM Sabbster]# is offline  
Reply With Quote
#66  

gee
MY TITLE ISNT LONG ENOUGH
 
gee's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dio View Post
Quantum theory has proved that the observer of an experiment can have an impact on the outcome of the experiment. Why is it so much more of a stretch to imply that the energetic state and predispositions of the observer could also impact the outcome of a given expiriment?
Take the rice experiment. Cook up a pot of rice. You fill the first jar and label it "love", you fill the second jar and label it "hate". However rice from the top of a pot has less moisture than that in the middle and bottom of the pot - hence the "hate" jar ends up with more moisture and is more susceptible to mold.

Plus, you sterilized the jars right? You probably sterilized them at the same time - therefore, the "hate" jar would have been exposed to the ambient environment longer than the "love" jar since you filled it second, allowing more airborne mold spores to settle on it.

And how much hate did you subject the hate jar too? If you left the love jar on a window ledge and left the hate jar in a dark cupboard to punish it, UV light from the sun could have a sterilization effect on the love jar. There's endless other things that can affect the experiment.

So if one jar lasts longer than the other jar before going moldy - is it because of the text written on the jar and/or because the jar is by some means sensitive to how you act towards it, is it because you never controlled the experiment properly as mentioned above?

Good experimental science involves making sure that your experimental setup is "bulletproof" - you've set it up to be completely isolated from the environment it's conducted in, or you fully understand the effects of the environment and you take that into account somehow. Only when that's done can you draw proper conclusions.

Additionally, know how to interpret your results. If the love jar gets moldy first, you could say that rice loves being hated. If the hate jar gets moldy first, you could say that rice loves, well, love. In both cases you could conclude that rice is sensitive to how you treat it - and that right there is how the predispositions of the observer can affect a measurement.

Please don't create another dupe and respond with a 5000 word paragraph.
Old 05-28-2011, 08:42 AM gee is offline  
Reply With Quote
#67  

acidfast7
 
acidfast7's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendetta View Post
You fraudulent, ignorant child. For all your posturing in this thread, your inferences remain no less ridiculous than those you framed in any other thread: "hey guys, I've reached this new state of understanding and made a ground breaking discovery...but convenienty, there exists no method of validation of my claims through experimental replication...you're just going to have to take my word for it!"

Unbelievable.

Water memory actually works and is actively being studied. There are many thing that we don't understand, however, we don't have an assay for all of them.

In the end, I think there will be something to the whole water memory deal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_memory
__________________
I always post that shitty animated .gif of a boulder tumbling down a hill.
Old 05-28-2011, 09:45 AM acidfast7 is offline  
Reply With Quote
#68  

Gibonius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
Water memory actually works and is actively being studied. There are many thing that we don't understand, however, we don't have an assay for all of them.

In the end, I think there will be something to the whole water memory deal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_memory



I sure hope you're kidding, because homeopathy is total garbage "science" at best.
Old 05-28-2011, 10:14 AM Gibonius is offline  
Reply With Quote
#69  

acidfast7
 
acidfast7's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post


I sure hope you're kidding, because homeopathy is total garbage "science" at best.

There have been some positive results independent of the initial French group.

I am simply stating that the experimentation required does not fit within the framework of our current logical paradigms. We really need better experimental design and better assays, however, nothing is currently available
__________________
I always post that shitty animated .gif of a boulder tumbling down a hill.
Old 05-28-2011, 10:33 AM acidfast7 is offline  
Reply With Quote
#70  

Vendetta
That's "Doctor Vendetta" to you
 
Vendetta's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
Water memory actually works and is actively being studied. There are many thing that we don't understand, however, we don't have an assay for all of them.

In the end, I think there will be something to the whole water memory deal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_memory

Looks to me that the attempts at replication using rigorous experimental methods were failures--except for when a member of Benveniste's team did it

edit: reading through that link and the citations quite carefully, i can't believe you posted that

Last edited by Vendetta; 05-28-2011 at 10:47 AM..
Old 05-28-2011, 10:39 AM Vendetta is offline  
Reply With Quote
#71  

acidfast7
 
acidfast7's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendetta View Post
Looks to me that the attempts at replication using rigorous experimental methods were failures--except for when a member of Benveniste's team did it

edit: reading through that link and the citations quite carefully, i can't believe you posted that

actually, Ennis' group (Belfast) has some interesting, reproducible and unexplainable results.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/fpn1p6uacntl8e8r/

http://www.springerlink.com/content/e5kt2v0fjrwy65kh/

I do find it very interesting that the Ennis published the work even though she doesn't believe it.
__________________
I always post that shitty animated .gif of a boulder tumbling down a hill.

Last edited by acidfast7; 05-28-2011 at 10:57 AM..
Old 05-28-2011, 10:52 AM acidfast7 is offline  
Reply With Quote
#72  

Vendetta
That's "Doctor Vendetta" to you
 
Vendetta's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
actually, Ennis' group (Belfast) has some interesting, reproducible and unexplainable results.

Which the royal society then replicated and found no effect. I admit, I know batshit nada about your field--but I do know a couple of things about research methodology. Lack of consistent replication is, im sure you'll agree, is a problem. "One off" experiments finding effects is not evidence of existence. Especially when focused experimental replication, usually far more rigorous or protective against validity or reliability concerns, are often more trustworthy and find no effects.
Old 05-28-2011, 10:58 AM Vendetta is offline  
Reply With Quote
#73  

acidfast7
 
acidfast7's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendetta View Post
Which the royal society then replicated and found no effect. I admit, I know batshit nada about your field--but I do know a couple of things about research methodology. Lack of consistent replication is, im sure you'll agree, is a problem. "One off" experiments finding effects is not evidence of existence. Especially when focused experimental replication, usually far more rigorous or protective against validity or reliability concerns, are often more trustworthy and find no effects.

Ennis' papers provide data that was collected at multiple sites in multiple research groups. That is why I find it interesting. The links that I provided should let you read the first page of the paper, which describes the multiple sites, for free.

I agree that it's not a robust methodology and result. But, I do find the multi-site study compelling.
__________________
I always post that shitty animated .gif of a boulder tumbling down a hill.
Old 05-28-2011, 11:03 AM acidfast7 is offline  
Reply With Quote
#74  

TheMorlock
Contrary to my previous title I never fucked Inf's mother
 
TheMorlock's Avatar
 
no really, if you show a glass of water some penicillin and then drink the water then the water is as good as the drug.

Head On Apply Directly to the forehead
__________________
There is nothing to worry about. Legions of wise people with nothing but all of best interests at heart are ensuring our future of love and infinite bliss. Go watch TV :Bflaps
http://www.genmay.com/showthread.php?t=572323
Old 05-28-2011, 11:04 AM TheMorlock is offline  
Reply With Quote
#75  

Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:07 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.