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dio
 
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Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
The rice experiment is a neat trial of unconscious bias. You want a certain result, and happen to get it when you don't rigorously control for experimental error. As your controls get more and more rigorous (the "energy to prove"), the results stop occurring. Morons will interpret this as somehow having to do with your personal energy, rather than simply removing the unconscious biases that created the result in the first place.

This is just a story you've put together, you do not know if that is true.

Why is it so absurd to you to assert that human consciousness may be a variable component in a research experiment? I could understand when someone presents you with something saying "HERE, human consciousness is a component in this experiment" of course skepticism would be had about how true their claims are. But to generally dismiss the very possibility that human consciousness could be a variable component in anything, I think is absurd. It may be a jump to start declaring specific instances where human consciousness is a variable as we don't have proper means to verify such things. But to dismiss the possibility that consciousness is a variable altogether, in every experiment and phenomena we find of nature in the future, I do not think is intelligent.

If science had a means of accurately being able to control the variable of human consciousness I have absolutely no doubt that the things which could be experimentally verified under intense rigor would be truly astonishing.
Old 05-30-2011, 02:25 PM dio is offline  
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Vendetta
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This is just a story you've put together, you do not know if that is true.

No, shut the fuck up--he is exactly right. Cognitive biases undermine the validity of experimental research. When you tight the controls and methods enough to eliminate the biases, true results tend to surface.

This is what plagued parapsychological research--methods were rife with validity concerns and when researchers worked to modify the experiments to eliminate the biases, the "findings" disappeared.
Old 05-30-2011, 02:36 PM Vendetta is offline  
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Vendetta
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Why is it so absurd to you to assert that human consciousness may be a variable component in a research experiment? I could understand when someone presents you with something saying "HERE, human consciousness is a component in this experiment" of course skepticism would be had about how true their claims are. But to generally dismiss the very possibility that human consciousness could be a variable component in anything, I think is absurd. It may be a jump to start declaring specific instances where human consciousness is a variable as we don't have proper means to verify such things. But to dismiss the possibility that consciousness is a variable altogether, in every experiment and phenomena we find of nature in the future, I do not think is intelligent.

You present invalid evidence as indication of an unverified claim--shitty, invalid research (rice experiments, lol) as evidence of "human consciousness influencing research". I'm not against new methods or new data changing the paradigm, don't misunderstand me. I AM against dipshit frauds like you using invalid research as justification for your drugged out theories.
Old 05-30-2011, 02:39 PM Vendetta is offline  
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dio
 
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No, shut the fuck up--he is exactly right. Cognitive biases undermine the validity of experimental research. When you tight the controls and methods enough to eliminate the biases, true results tend to surface.

This is what plagued parapsychological research--methods were rife with validity concerns and when researchers worked to modify the experiments to eliminate the biases, the "findings" disappeared.

The story he put together is exactly that, a story. I understand the story, and the possibility of what happens in the story, but it's not what really happened. What I did with this experiment was very consistent. What I've seen other people do with this experiment was also very consistence. I don't doubt some people fucked some thing up that may have made youtube videos. But to assert EVERYONE did?
Old 05-30-2011, 02:52 PM dio is offline  
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TheMorlock
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This is just a story you've put together, you do not know if that is true.

Why is it so absurd to you to assert that human consciousness may be a variable component in a research experiment? I could understand when someone presents you with something saying "HERE, human consciousness is a component in this experiment" of course skepticism would be had about how true their claims are. But to generally dismiss the very possibility that human consciousness could be a variable component in anything, I think is absurd. It may be a jump to start declaring specific instances where human consciousness is a variable as we don't have proper means to verify such things. But to dismiss the possibility that consciousness is a variable altogether, in every experiment and phenomena we find of nature in the future, I do not think is intelligent.

If science had a means of accurately being able to control the variable of human consciousness I have absolutely no doubt that the things which could be experimentally verified under intense rigor would be truly astonishing.

Why is circular reasoning always round?
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Old 05-30-2011, 02:56 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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The story he put together is exactly that, a story. I understand the story, and the possibility of what happens in the story, but it's not what really happened. What I did with this experiment was very consistent. What I've seen other people do with this experiment was also very consistence. I don't doubt some people fucked some thing up that may have made youtube videos. But to assert EVERYONE did?

Give me an article from a legitimate, peer-reviewed journal that demonstrates quantitative evidence from a rigorously conducted rice experiment.
Old 05-30-2011, 02:59 PM Vendetta is offline  
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You present invalid evidence as indication of an unverified claim--shitty, invalid research (rice experiments, lol) as evidence of "human consciousness influencing research". I'm not against new methods or new data changing the paradigm, don't misunderstand me. I AM against dipshit frauds like you using invalid research as justification for your drugged out theories.

So maybe you don't understand? This experiment is designed in such a way that the validation is done by an individual themselves. "Community involved scientific research" I guess you could say.

To assert that Emotos research is the product of drugs is really, stupid? How many empty holes will you grab in order to avoid the fact that, human consciousness MAY be a variable component in experimental research. Clearly you are not going to let into your mind that yes "WE" are at this point in time of bumping up against experiments in which the variation of human consciousness is making it difficult to have said experiments undergo intense rigor. But to assert that we will NEVER bump up against an experiment in which consciousness is a variable component, that is just silly. You may not like to incorporate into your mind the idea that we are already at that point, but I don't think you can intelligently assert it is IMPOSSIBLE for us to ever get to such a point.

If you can't allow yourself to toy with the fact we are there right now, then toy with the possibility of what would we do if we arrive at that point in the future. Science cannot currently account for human consciousness itself as a variable in experimental research. This is a HUGE hole in the scientific method and as such, until a solution to this hole is found, the scientific method cannot be relied upon to present to us everything that is 'True'.

Last edited by dio; 05-30-2011 at 03:06 PM..
Old 05-30-2011, 03:01 PM dio is offline  
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Vendetta
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So maybe you don't understand? This experiment is designed in such a way that the validation is done by an individual themselves. "Community involved scientific research" I guess you could say.

Oh, I understand. Everyone in this thread understands. You're asking logical people to accept illogical conclusions--without valid data or rigorous methods (proven)--and to "take your word for it"

Quote:
To assert that Emotos research is the product of drugs is really, stupid? How many empty holes will you grab in order to avoid the fact that, human consciousness MAY be a variable component in experimental research. Clearly you are not going to let into your mind that yes "WE" are at this point of time of bumping up against experiment in which the variation of human consciousness is making it difficult to have said experiments under intense rigor. But to assert that we will NEVER bump up against an experiment in which consciousness is a variable component, that is just silly. You may not like to incorporate into your mind the idea that we are already at that point, but I don't think you can intelligently assert it is IMPOSSIBLE for us to ever get to such a point.
Emoto is not a trained scientist. Emoto is a businessman with a background in politics. He profits from his "research" in support of his business interests. It's a quack.

Quote:
If you can't allow yourself to toy with the fact we are there right now, then toy with the possibility of what would we do if we arrive at that point in the future? Science cannot currently account for human consciousness itself as a variable in experimental research. This is a HUGE hole in the scientific method and as such, until a solution to this hole is found, the scientific method cannot be relied upon to present to us everything that is 'True'.
I entertain all possibilities. I will not however sacrifice my ethics or my logic to accept outrageous claims because some quack says "I can't show you my evidence, you have to believe me".

Fucking fraud
Old 05-30-2011, 03:07 PM Vendetta is offline  
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dio
 
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Why is circular reasoning always round?

Why is the earth round?
Old 05-30-2011, 03:08 PM dio is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Why is the earth round?

Its not
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Old 05-30-2011, 03:09 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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Vendetta
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Why is the earth round?

Quote:
To a first-order approximation the Earth is round. This
is due to gravity. Gravity pulls with equal strength in all
directions; therefore any variations from a spherical
shape will lead to gravitational forces that
bring the shape back into that of a sphere.

This is without considering the rotation of the earth,
however. The rotation of the earth adds centrifugal
effects, which cause the earth to bulge slightly at
its equator and flatten slightly at its poles.
(This is like twirling a rock on the end of a string
and then letting go--the rock flies away from the
twirler.) Because of these centrifugal effects, the
distance from the center of the earth to the surface
of the earth is about 0.33% shorter at the poles
compared to the equator.
I can't wait to hear why YOU think the earth is round--and not really round, at that.
Old 05-30-2011, 03:10 PM Vendetta is offline  
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dio
 
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Oh, I understand. Everyone in this thread understands. You're asking logical people to accept illogical conclusions--without valid data or rigorous methods (proven)--and to "take your word for it"

I was more looking for ideas on how to deal with the component of human consciousness as a variable.

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I entertain all possibilities. I will not however sacrifice my ethics or my logic to accept outrageous claims because some quack says "I can't show you my evidence, you have to believe me".

Fucking fraud

Emoto made the rice experiment as a way for people to create the evidence themselves.
Old 05-30-2011, 03:10 PM dio is offline  
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dio
 
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I can't wait to hear why YOU think the earth is round--and not really round, at that.

For the same reason any natural phenomena is round...
Old 05-30-2011, 03:12 PM dio is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Is it time to ban this dupe yet?
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Old 05-30-2011, 03:12 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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Vendetta
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For the same reason any natural phenomena is round...

Enlighten me.
Old 05-30-2011, 03:12 PM Vendetta is offline  
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