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Straw Man
RuHo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by möbiustrip View Post
Serious question: how does the European social democratic model survive the absence of American imperialism?
Serious answer: Shortly put, it survives because of american (and european) imperialism.

I guess that's a different thread though? Besides, I don't see why me saying americans do some things really really flat out wrong, mean that I am a champion defender of european living. I've always thought it's kind of funny that whatever I happen to say about america that isn't pleasing to some americans here, most people here post how I'm a fag european and europe sucks (with the exception of Redrum, who thinks I do it out of envy. He also thinks the holocaust didn't happen).
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More directly: where do you see the euro in two years?

A poll would report most people in the USSA felt better before its economy collapsed, too: cause and effect is a real bitch.
I'm not an economist, but if I think of the almost 20 years with the euro, it's brought nothing but essentially good things (the finnish mark was devaluated and a huge depression hit here with the soviet collapse so I'm not sure can I be objective about this anyway). I don't know, it seems to be a strong stable currency compared to before so I don't see why I should be overtly pessimistic about it despite the greek/portuguese/irish things going on.

Regarding the USSR poll, it was done in 2009 though? Hardly a collapsed economy anymore.
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Old 07-11-2011, 09:03 AM Straw Man is offline  
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Originally Posted by TheMorlock View Post
Yes lets run the government based on FDR's ponzi scheme. It's worked so well so far.

If we weren't spending trillions of dollars on a perpetual war machine then yes, it would work well. Don't you think that money could, oh I don't know, be used to provide health care and education for every American citizen? But... but... providing goods and services at a loss? Ridiculous! Everyone knows that unless you're making a profit, the system is terrible! It doesn't matter if the outcome greatly benefits millions of people and enhances their quality of life. Operating at a loss = your shit is fucked up, scrap the system. Now, if you privatised the system, then the costs would skyrocket, the benefits would hit the floor, and only a few people could get it. But at least the CEO could buy a private jet, thus indirectly employing a few thousand people. Gotta love capitalist thinking!


When China... mother-fucking China for christ's sake, is telling the US, "Hey... maybe you guys should spend less money on bombs and more money on your citizens" you have to think, jesus fucking christ when did things get so out of control?
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Old 07-11-2011, 09:56 AM :ninja: is offline  
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Redrum
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Originally Posted by RuHo View Post
Well yes, some enjoy working.You must be autist or something. Here you are, talking about your low wage shit job, and actually whining how everyone else doesn't feel like fucking 8½ bucks an hour isn't enough. Perhaps you should keep in mind some people have kids and all that other stuff, everyone isn't a depressing fucking loser like yourself

Go work in the fucking salt mines for all I care, mongoloid

only people actually working that $8.50/hour jobs were mexican illegals, and they got paid paid the full $10/hour because they don't pay taxes.

if you truly want to point a finger at anyone for devaluing american labor, they're a huge part of it. but we pretty much depend on their near slave labor at this point and they're all around good people, so they get a pass.

they sent enough money home to send their children to private primary schools.

you strong jelly of america's PPP.

niggas working at mcdonlads for $7/hour get priority access to section 8 housing and medicare, the american system truly works!


BTW, enjoy your PIIGS EUROFAG

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Old 07-11-2011, 10:13 AM Redrum is offline  
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Straw Man
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Are you mother fucking seriously, talking about government debt?




"i've worked back breaking construction jobs for $8.40 an hour after taxes and let me tell you i did not spend one minute of it being butthurt that a select few are worth $1 billion plus"

Decide are you going to be a working class hero or a future millionaire, now you're just coming out as a 4chan aspie (which you are)
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Old 07-11-2011, 10:34 AM Straw Man is offline  
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Redrum
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if i were half as aspergic as you i'd be set

'people with the spergers get a free apartment in these parts

then i too would be able to a keyboard marxist revolutionary like you, pray for the day my benefits get approved bro so we can be marxist brothers in arms

pif some of those aspergeric genes (almost completely unqiue to scandinavia, btw)
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Old 07-11-2011, 10:48 AM Redrum is offline  
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btw if you really want to play the debt game 'amerikkka and EU are about neck and neck:

eu:

Public debt € 9,828.2 billion
(80% of GDP) (2010)

usa
Public debt $14 trillion (Jan 2011)[8] 93% of GDP
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Old 07-11-2011, 10:52 AM Redrum is offline  
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Vote McCain!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by :ninja: View Post
If we weren't spending trillions of dollars on a perpetual war machine then yes, it would work well. Don't you think that money could, oh I don't know, be used to provide health care and education for every American citizen? But... but... providing goods and services at a loss? Ridiculous! Everyone knows that unless you're making a profit, the system is terrible! It doesn't matter if the outcome greatly benefits millions of people and enhances their quality of life. Operating at a loss = your shit is fucked up, scrap the system. Now, if you privatised the system, then the costs would skyrocket, the benefits would hit the floor, and only a few people could get it. But at least the CEO could buy a private jet, thus indirectly employing a few thousand people. Gotta love capitalist thinking!


When China... mother-fucking China for christ's sake, is telling the US, "Hey... maybe you guys should spend less money on bombs and more money on your citizens" you have to think, jesus fucking christ when did things get so out of control?

Here in America, the love of money is not only the root of all evil, but it is also good economic policy.
Old 07-11-2011, 11:35 AM Vote McCain! is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redrum View Post
btw if you really want to play the debt game 'amerikkka and EU are about neck and neck:

eu:

Public debt € 9,828.2 billion
(80% of GDP) (2010)

usa
Public debt $14 trillion (Jan 2011)[8] 93% of GDP

sources?

I recently heard US debt is only ~60% GDP
Old 07-11-2011, 11:35 AM Vote McCain! is offline  
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acidfast7
 
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BTW, enjoy your PIIGS EUROFAG


You do understand that the "debt" you've described pays for a better lifestyle...

top 10 things that this debt does, in my opinion:

1. pays for (almost) free university ... no student loan debt.
2. pays for 4-6 weeks vacation per year (mandatory by law)
3. pays for excellent bus/train/plane/autobahn infrastructure.
4, pays for all healthcare
5. decent (in germany at least) retirement of approximately 65% pre-retirement income until death.
6. free day care
7. 10-24 months parental leave per child
8. job must be held open for 2-4 years (depending on country) to return to after childbirth
9. permanent job system (think "tenure for professors" all the way down to people mopping the floor.)
10. maintenance of a relatively strong cultural environment (those roman ruins ain't so cheap to maintain).

what does the American debt give to the average American:

1. no free university
2. no mandatory vacation leave
3. crappy public transport
4. pay-as-you-go healthcare ... jobless = minimal care.
5. US SS system
6. no free day care
7. no mandatory parental leave
8. no keeping of job open for childbirth
9. no legally perm jobs
10. liberty bell.

not trolling here, but both systems are in really tough shape, but if I had to pick one the decision is really easy ... especially as a highly educated white person.

now, i understand that the "debt" doesn't directly pay for those privs, but those privs did result in the the debt. the EU system will have to devolve a little, but nothing compared to the total absence of a social system in the US.

basically, i owe it to my future children to become an EU citizen, so they can be ... otherwise they'll be lost.
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Old 07-11-2011, 01:18 PM acidfast7 is offline  
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DreamWarrior
 
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Originally Posted by :ninja: View Post
Just as universities charge more for out of state tuition, as a way to bring more revenue into the state, we should be doing the same for goods, services, and labor imported to the country.
Much as I'd love for the US to heavily tax companies for outsourcing ("services" imported into the country) or put high import taxes on non-US made stuff to preclude importation...honestly, what do you think the result of that policy would be? Both domestically and foreign?
Old 07-11-2011, 01:19 PM DreamWarrior is offline  
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#175  

Creepster
 
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Originally Posted by TheMorlock View Post
They are the tip of the ice berg you pathetic troll



socialism has never worked anwhere. I thought you were not trolling anymore.

Works quite well here tbh - think you are thinking about communism instead
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Old 07-11-2011, 01:36 PM Creepster is offline  
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acidfast7
 
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Originally Posted by Creepster View Post
Works quite well here tbh - think you are thinking about communism instead

a. open your borders.
b. plz restore the 4yr unemployment system you previous had.

DK used to be so cool
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Old 07-11-2011, 01:38 PM acidfast7 is offline  
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Gibonius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redrum View Post
btw if you really want to play the debt game 'amerikkka and EU are about neck and neck:

eu:

Public debt € 9,828.2 billion
(80% of GDP) (2010)

usa
Public debt $14 trillion (Jan 2011)[8] 93% of GDP

Pretty sad that "socialist" Europe has a lower debt fraction than "capitalist" US, and we have basically fuck-all to show for it. A nice shiny military and more multi-millionaires, I guess.
Old 07-11-2011, 02:04 PM Gibonius is offline  
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Gibonius
 
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Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
You do understand that the "debt" you've described pays for a better lifestyle...

<snip>

not trolling here, but both systems are in really tough shape,

now, i understand that the "debt" doesn't directly pay for those privs, but those privs did result in the the debt. the EU system will have to devolve a little, but nothing compared to the total absence of a social system in the US.

basically, i owe it to my future children to become an EU citizen, so they can be ... otherwise they'll be lost.

You pretty much listed out in a lot more detail what I said a second ago. Europeans get so damn much for their money and we get shit for basically the same amount of money. Neither system is sustainable, but at least they're getting a much higher quality of life out of it.
Quote:
but if I had to pick one the decision is really easy ... especially as a highly educated white person.
This part I'm missing a bit. You have access to jobs in Europe because you're highly educated, but the gulf in quality of life is lower on our end of the economic scale if anything. The downsides of the American economy are minimized to a large extent in our industries. Government and academic positions in the US have excellent job security, and quite good compensation. Go to private industry, job security goes down, but the pay is excellent. The job security problem isn't nearly as severe as in the economy as a whole either. The extra pay for being in the US makes the security net less of an issue; I can afford to save for college and don't need "free" (taken out of my taxes) university. It just turns into a question of priorities, obviously you like the Euro system but I know for damn sure that's not universal considering the number of European scientists working in the US.

Now for the average middle class worker who sees all the shitty sides of the US economy, they'd LOVE to have access to Euro type jobs but just can't get them.
Old 07-11-2011, 02:20 PM Gibonius is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Creepster View Post
Works quite well here tbh - think you are thinking about communism instead

Countries that have the population of one of our medium sized states dont count

go look at stalins collectivism he had to come out and halt more farm collectives because it was causing more starvation in the cities. While farm output went up the farmers ate more of their own product.
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Old 07-11-2011, 02:34 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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