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Redrum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
We used to be even better off than the rest of the world, from top to bottom. Now we're letting that slip away, and for what?

the only reason stuff used to be so good here from the late '40s up until the early '70s was because the rest of the world was still in ruin in from world war ii. europe was rebuilding itself and lost all of the wealth from her colonies (japan too). there was very little competition for american manufacturing, and because of this people made $80/hour riveting stuff, owning 5 cars and two houses with no debt.


once it became impossible to pay $80 an hour because of the emergence of chinese inudstry, all the manufacturing went there. white collar jobs went to india...and even shitty service jobs are now in the hands of mexican illegals on our own soil.

it's not so much that shit is getting bad, it's just returning to normal. globalization normal anyway.

add protectionism (which the us does not participate in, or at least pledges not to) and greedy corporations that incorporate abroad to avoid paying taxes in 'murka, and you have what is before you.
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Old 07-03-2011, 05:17 PM Redrum is offline  
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:ninja:
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Originally Posted by Mamma Jamma View Post
It's simple, really. You see, the largest companies employ lots and lots of people, and the chief officers of these companies happen to be the richest people in the country. Therefore if we give these people more capital, they will be able to expand, create jobs, etc. Now if we really want to bring down unemployment, we should really remove those burdensome taxes from the rich. In fact, we should all do our part and give what we can to our nearest rich person. I myself used to have a decent bank account, a house, and whatnot, but I gave it all to a local millionaire years ago so that one day I myself might be able to live the American dream.


wait

I thoroughly enjoyed this post.
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Old 07-03-2011, 06:01 PM :ninja: is offline  
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w.t.cats
 
give the poor to the rich until they become as one and fight god
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Old 07-03-2011, 06:10 PM w.t.cats is offline  
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Some people are such greedy bastards. What the hell do you do with all that money? Shit, I can't see myself ever being happier earning $60k+ a year than $250k+ a year. I must live an extremely frugal life.

But, then I play a game such as SimCity and even though I have 6 million simoleons and always profit, I don't distribute the earnings and sit on a pile of cash, and I still want more. Plus I also cater to the rich .
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Old 07-03-2011, 07:05 PM TheJackal is offline  
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Old 07-04-2011, 07:10 AM 5ive is offline  
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Vendetta
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Originally Posted by TheJackal View Post
Some people are such greedy bastards. What the hell do you do with all that money? Shit, I can't see myself ever being happier earning $60k+ a year than $250k+ a year. I must live an extremely frugal life.

But, then I play a game such as SimCity and even though I have 6 million simoleons and always profit, I don't distribute the earnings and sit on a pile of cash, and I still want more. Plus I also cater to the rich .

I dunno man. I used to earn 60k a year and now I earn much, much more. Makes a world of difference.
Old 07-04-2011, 08:10 AM Vendetta is offline  
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5ive
 
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I was born a proletariat in a city torn apart by the drug war, and now I'm a successful American student with wealthy parents. Bootstraps!
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Old 07-04-2011, 09:10 AM 5ive is offline  
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Originally Posted by :ninja: View Post
So, I'm really confused about this. Republicans have been telling the public for decades that the only way to fairly distribute wealth is to give more of it to people who are already extremely rich. They say that when businesses get more money, they can hire more people. In the real world, this doesn't happen. When businesses get more money, the executives get enormous raises and bonuses.
Your post has too many flawed fundamental assumptions that make it impossible to answer your question. First, the gov't doesn't have any money to distribute to anyone without confiscating it from the private sector first. Second the gov't doesn't give people or businesses in the private sector their income. Instead, these people and businesses earn their income. Third, I've never heard a conservative advocate the gov't take on a role of distributing wealth. Can you please provide some examples.

Lowering taxes on everyone isn't the gov't "giving" anyone more money. It simply means the gov't is confiscating less of your income and the income of everyone else.
Old 07-04-2011, 10:07 AM Stereodude is offline  
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Your post has too many flawed fundamental assumptions that make it impossible to answer your question.
Your reply has too many flawed fundamental assumptions about my post.

Let's begin.
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First, the gov't doesn't have any money to distribute to anyone without confiscating it from the private sector first.
Super. Thanks for clearing that up. So when the government taxes individuals, and then turns around and subsidizes crops, that is... what again? Please help me. Oh, a distribution of wealth. Thanks.

Quote:
Second the gov't doesn't give people or businesses in the private sector their income. Instead, these people and businesses earn their income.
Man, you are just captain obvious today. Also, I missed the part in my OP where I implied that your straw man was indeed taking place. Income disparity is a problem, and a government-endorsed model to alleviate this disparity is a redistribution of wealth. My point was that lowering corporate taxes, removing estate taxes, etc, etc... worsens this disparity. This is also a form of redistribution of wealth, only it's really trickle-up.
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Third, I've never heard a conservative advocate the gov't take on a role of distributing wealth. Can you please provide some examples.
Trickle down economics is... what again? Wealth flows from the richest of the rich down the lines into the pockets of the common worker. If that isn't a government-endorsed model of wealth distribution, then please tell me what it is.
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Lowering taxes on everyone isn't the gov't "giving" anyone more money. It simply means the gov't is confiscating less of your income and the income of everyone else.
Semantics, blow me. When the right tries to abolish estate taxes, this is the equivalent to the government giving a refund on money they've collected. What is the point of this? Trickle-down distribution of wealth, of course. Once again, semantics... blow me.

Instead of trying to be a giant douchenozzle, you could easily have shown that trickle-down economics successfully distributes wealth from the very richest individuals down to the common worker. Or... is it not that easy?
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Old 07-04-2011, 01:01 PM :ninja: is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Wow 1 for 4 not looking good for
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Old 07-04-2011, 01:25 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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Stereodude
 
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Originally Posted by :ninja: View Post
Super. Thanks for clearing that up. So when the government taxes individuals, and then turns around and subsidizes crops, that is... what again?
Institutional theft.
Quote:
Man, you are just captain obvious today. Also, I missed the part in my OP where I implied that your straw man was indeed taking place. Income disparity is a problem, and a government-endorsed model to alleviate this disparity is a redistribution of wealth.
Sorry, but the gov't has no business trying to alleviate a disparity in the distribution of wealth. That's not the job of a functioning gov't.
Quote:
Trickle down economics is... what again? Wealth flows from the richest of the rich down the lines into the pockets of the common worker. If that isn't a government-endorsed model of wealth distribution, then please tell me what it is.
I hate to burst your bubble, but it does work. Rich people spend their money and they're not sitting around giving it to each other.
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When the right tries to abolish estate taxes, this is the equivalent to the government giving a refund on money they've collected. What is the point of this? Trickle-down distribution of wealth, of course.
No it's not. The gov't has taxed that money over and over again. It was taxed when it was earned. The interest and dividends on it were taxed. Now just because the person dies the gov't should get another cut of the money? Where is there a refund occurring? The gov't doesn't write a check to the estate. They simple don't get another cut at the money they've already taken many slices from.
Quote:
Instead of trying to be a giant douchenozzle, you could easily have shown that trickle-down economics successfully distributes wealth from the very richest individuals down to the common worker. Or... is it not that easy?
It's very simple to explain, but I doubt you'll get it.

Rich people and companies buy private jets. Someone had to make those jets which in turn employs people. Those people get paid. Someone has to fly the jet, so they hire a pilot. The pilots gets paid. Someone has to maintain the jet like a grounds crew. Those people get paid. So all these people getting paid out of the private jet industry now have money which they spend at the grocery store, drug store, movie theater, etc. Those business then employ people and it ripples through the economy.

Do you really think that in the above scenario that everyone who was employed via the private jet industry would be better off unemployed, on welfare, food stamps, living off the gov't because the gov't taxed rich people & companies so much that none of them could either afford to or were unwilling to buy a private jet (either through very high direct income taxes or punitive taxes on the purchase of private jets)?
Do you think the gov't would collect enough in their very high direct taxes or punitive taxes on the purchase of private jets to pay for all the "benefits" they're paying to all the people who are now unemployed because the private jet industry died?
How about the gov't... Do they collect more tax money by punishing the rich and companies with heavy taxes and paying "benefits" to scores of now unemployed people than they would if have a bunch of employed tax payers but aren't taxing the rich and companies to death?
Old 07-04-2011, 01:37 PM Stereodude is offline  
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TheMorlock
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It does not even get to that stage. The jet never gets made because the centralization of wealth never would occur and the air plane company would not be able to finance R&D to go from prop jobs to jets.

people like ninja are bobble head dolls
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Old 07-04-2011, 01:42 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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#27  

Gibonius
 
Your Econ 101 Reagonics is pretty well disproved by the results of the last three decades.

There's a very big difference between the "punish the rich" scenario you lay out, and the trickle-down theory of targeting ALL government policies towards aiding the rich in the (failed) hope that it'll spread down to everyone else. It doesn't, and hasn't. The government is supposed to advance the interest of the majority of Americans, not just increase our GDP numbers and the wealth of the top percentiles. This is NOT the same as redistribution, rather focusing on growing wealth across the entire spectrum rather than just at the top.
Old 07-04-2011, 01:44 PM Gibonius is offline  
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TheMorlock
Contrary to my previous title I never fucked Inf's mother
 
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Um no. I guess you took Media Blitz while ignoring fact for 1000 alex


Nice try though.
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Old 07-04-2011, 01:48 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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Old 07-04-2011, 01:50 PM asdsad is offline  
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