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Stereodude
 
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Originally Posted by :ninja: View Post
US companies should look out for US employees. They don't care.
Wait, you mean companies aren't in business to provide jobs and heathcare to as many people as possible. You mean they're in business to make money. Who knew?
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They think that unemployment, medicare, the threat of legal retaliation for indiscriminate downsizing, etc... are not worth it.
So, you admit that all the burdensome regulations put onto companies make it unattractive to keep jobs in the US. But yet you want even more of the same as if it will change the results...
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They have no problems paying some poor sap in Haiti $2.50 a day, because they don't give a shit about human life. They only give a shit about profits. They have theirs, the rest of the country can go fuck itself.
So, they found someone willing to do the job for the price they were willing to pay. But, in the US we make it illegal for them to employ someone at that price via the minimum wage? So, did the minimum wage protect the wages of some people, or ship the jobs to a foreign country?
Old 07-04-2011, 04:01 PM Stereodude is offline  
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:ninja:
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Wait, you mean companies aren't in business to provide jobs and heathcare to as many people as possible. You mean they're in business to make money. Who knew?
So, you admit that all the burdensome regulations put onto companies make it unattractive to keep jobs in the US. But yet you want even more of the same as if it will change the results...
So, they found someone willing to do the job for the price they were willing to pay. But, in the US we make it illegal for them to employ someone at that price via the minimum wage? So, did the minimum wage protect the wages of some people, or ship the jobs to a foreign country?
OH NO JESUS CHRIST MINIMUM WAGE. HOLY SHIT! If the vast population is not impoverished and poor, how am I ever supposed to exploit cheap labor to maximize my profits? GOD FORBID I PAY MY EMPLOYEES A LIVING WAGE. Fuck them. They can go home to their cardboard shanties and eat dirt. I have another private jet to buy

Start removing those barriers to employment, and two things will happen:
1) Companies continue to outsource to third world nations with no protections against unfair exploitation
2) Jobs are created in the US because the country no longer has protections against unfair exploitation.

It's lose-lose. TOTALLY RAD, DUDE!
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Old 07-04-2011, 04:07 PM :ninja: is offline  
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Stereodude
 
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Since you're argument has turned into some claim that companies have some sort of moral obligation to pay people a "living wage" (whatever that is?) I guess you're throwing in the towel on this argument then?
Old 07-04-2011, 04:10 PM Stereodude is offline  
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TheMorlock
Contrary to my previous title I never fucked Inf's mother
 
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Originally Posted by :ninja: View Post
OH NO JESUS CHRIST MINIMUM WAGE. HOLY SHIT! If the vast population is not impoverished and poor, how am I ever supposed to exploit cheap labor to maximize my profits? GOD FORBID I PAY MY EMPLOYEES A LIVING WAGE. Fuck them. They can go home to their cardboard shanties and eat dirt. I have another private jet to buy

Start removing those barriers to employment, and two things will happen:
1) Companies continue to outsource to third world nations with no protections against unfair exploitation
2) Jobs are created in the US because the country no longer has protections against unfair exploitation.

It's lose-lose. TOTALLY RAD, DUDE!


You forgot

It's For The Children in your rants.
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Old 07-04-2011, 04:11 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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Stereodude
 
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What's a living wage? Who gets to decide what a living wage is? Can I afford a 3000sq-ft house in the suburbs, 2 new cars, and whatever else I want on a "living wage"? Cause if not, I don't think its really a living wage, and that's just not fair...
Old 07-04-2011, 04:12 PM Stereodude is offline  
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Since you're argument has turned into some claim that companies have some sort of moral obligation to pay people a "living wage" (whatever that is?) I assume you're throwing in the towel on this argument then?

Swing and a miss. Governments have a moral obligation to ensure the prosperity of its people, not it's top 1%. Your argument is that the private sector will always do the right thing. It will NEVER do the right thing. Ever. It will only employ the lowest common denominator to maximize profits. BUT HEY AT LEAST A DOZEN PEOPLE GET PAID WHEN THE CEO BUYS A NEW PRIVATE JET
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Old 07-04-2011, 04:13 PM :ninja: is offline  
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You forgot

It's For The Children in your rants.

Oh, that's right. When the US enacted child-labor protections, Nike was like, fuck that shit I'm going to Indonesia. Fucking US Democrats will never understand.
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Old 07-04-2011, 04:14 PM :ninja: is offline  
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TheMorlock
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What's a living wage? Who gets to decide what a living wage is? Can I afford a 3000sq-ft house in the suburbs, 2 new cars, and whatever else I want on a "living wage"? Cause if not, I don't think its really a living wage, and that's just not fair...

You are trying to make him define his buzz words and catch phrases? That's hardly fair.
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Old 07-04-2011, 04:15 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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You are trying to make him define his buzz words and catch phrases? That's hardly fair.

Give me a break. I'm young and stupid and it's the fourth of July.
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Old 07-04-2011, 04:17 PM :ninja: is offline  
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Stereodude
 
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Governments have a moral obligation to ensure the prosperity of its people, not it's top 1%.
No they don't. You can't legislate equality of outcomes unless you want to make everyone equally miserable. The gov't has an obligation to ensure equality of opportunity and a level playing field (in that people aren't cheating).
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Your argument is that the private sector will always do the right thing.
No, my argument is that the private sector does a better job than gov't at growing success. The gov't doesn't make anything. It doesn't get anything without first taking it from the private sector.
Old 07-04-2011, 04:32 PM Stereodude is offline  
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Stereodude
 
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You are trying to make him define his buzz words and catch phrases? That's hardly fair.
While we're at it who is entitled to a living wage? The guy flipping burgers at McDonalds? Does it make a difference if he's a lazy high school drop out living at home, or a struggling person who got laid off with a wife and 3 kids who just needed a job?
Old 07-04-2011, 04:34 PM Stereodude is offline  
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But most of it goes to bureaucrats who simply do not create any wealth. They only consume. And some of the money does cease to exist by wasting it on boondogles that have negative ROI. And at each point the money changes hands it gets taxed again. Economic friction
What do you mean by "goes to bureaucrats"? Are bureaucrats persons? Do they spend money? And do you really think the private sector is free of "boondogles that have negative ROI"? And as for being taxed again, that would depend on whose hands it's in. But this whole argument stems from the objection to an ever widening gap between haves and have nots. The more laissez faire you get (at least in this country where most laws are written according to the wishes of corporate lobbyists) the wider the gap gets. You apparently want that, but I don't.
Old 07-04-2011, 04:45 PM pojke is offline  
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pojke
 
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No they don't. You can't legislate equality of outcomes unless you want to make everyone equally miserable.
No one's advocating "equality of outcomes." It's about lessening an outrageous and expanding gap in wealth and incomes. It's not all or nothing.


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The gov't has an obligation to ensure equality of opportunity and a level playing field (in that people aren't cheating).
Government's obligation isn't defined by you. It changes all the time with elections. And the playing field is nowhere near level thanks to undue influence on lawmakers by corporations and the few who profit most from them. If the runners don't start in the same place, why should anyone indulge in the fiction that the result at the finish line is anything but a fraud.

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No, my argument is that the private sector does a better job than gov't at growing success. The gov't doesn't make anything. It doesn't get anything without first taking it from the private sector.
So? Do you think anyone is arguing that public sector grows the economic pie faster? Most objections come from the point of view of that an enormous pie is worthless if only a few get to enjoy it.
Old 07-04-2011, 04:59 PM pojke is offline  
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pojke
 
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While we're at it who is entitled to a living wage? The guy flipping burgers at McDonalds? Does it make a difference if he's a lazy high school drop out living at home, or a struggling person who got laid off with a wife and 3 kids who just needed a job?
Interesting question. Does the difference matter to YOU? Are you getting at the idea that need should matter?

I wouldn't call minimum wage a "living wage," but yes, everyone deserves at least minimum if they are employed. On the other hand, if McDs meets that obligation, that's where their duty ends. If the wage isn't enough, that's where (in a civilized country) food support and other assistance comes in. And in those cases a distinction would be made between relative needs.
Old 07-04-2011, 05:08 PM pojke is offline  
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Stereodude
 
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Interesting question. Does the difference matter to YOU? Are you getting at the idea that need should matter?
Nope... A company should be free to pay as little or as much as they want. If someone is willing to take the job, they will, if not the company will have to offer more.
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I wouldn't call minimum wage a "living wage," but yes, everyone deserves at least minimum if they are employed. On the other hand, if McDs meets that obligation, that's where their duty ends. If the wage isn't enough, that's where (in a civilized country) food support and other assistance comes in. And in those cases a distinction would be made between relative needs.
Well, why don't we raise the minimum wage to $25 an hour then?
Old 07-04-2011, 05:15 PM Stereodude is offline  
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