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Originally Posted by pyramid View Post
yeah, you don't even understand the problem, do you?

when the total share of income that goes to 1% of the population more than doubles that leaves less income for the other 99% to squabble over.

the entire bottom 50% of the nation, 75 million households, takes in just 13% of all the income in the nation. the bottom 50% of everyone in the nation has to fight over HALF what the top 1% takes in.

it's not that americans are fat and lazy and overspending, it's that far too many are going to work till they die with nothing to show for it.

>implying the gdp is a closed system that is fixed in the way you describe it, that does not grow or contract, with the various relative slices of the pie growing and contracting with it
>implying the massive explosion of the illegal immigration and the outsourcing of jobs to china hasn't hurt job prospects for the poorest of the poor way more than any one cfo at goldman sachs ever did
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Old 10-04-2011, 12:45 AM Redrum is offline  
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rofl. compare a UAW worker to somebody working in a toyota plant in japan.

OK, let's. The japanese have universal health care. That makes up for most of the difference.



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perhaps. but they're certainly not responsible for all of the ills you've encountered in life either.
no one is saying they are. but let's have a little accountability for what they have done and a little more equity in reward for labor.
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Old 10-04-2011, 12:46 AM pyramid is offline  
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One of the most amazing Republican tricks of the last ~15 years has been convincing the Average Joe to fight for policies that can only benefit the rich, while simultaneously ignoring any policies that might increase their own interests . Aspirational politics, quite an interesting shell game.

but but but... gays and guns and god and stuff.

those right wing politicians totally care about the stupid wedge issues they use to get elected so they can do their corporate masters bidding.
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Old 10-04-2011, 12:48 AM pyramid is offline  
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cause obama didn't totally continue bush's policy of bailing out every bloating failied shitstain of a corporation while they used the money to help themselves to a healthy bonus

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Old 10-04-2011, 12:51 AM Redrum is offline  
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>implying the gdp is a closed system that is fixed in the way you describe it, that does not grow or contract, with the various relative slices of the pie growing and contracting with it
Such unequal wealth distribution is destructive for any democratic society. It also strongly brings into question of GDP-centric economic policies and proves the lie of trickle-down economic theory.
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>implying the massive explosion of the illegal immigration and the outsourcing of jobs to china hasn't hurt job prospects for the poorest of the poor way more than any one cfo at goldman sachs ever did
Business interests are the strongest lobbyists against immigration reform and work visa reform.
Old 10-04-2011, 12:52 AM Gibonius is offline  
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cause obama didn't totally continue bush's policy of bailing out every bloating failied shitstain of a corporation while they used the money to help themselves to a healthy bonus


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29003620...executive-pay/
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Old 10-04-2011, 12:52 AM pyramid is offline  
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OK, let's. The japanese have universal health care. That makes up for most of the difference.

lol that's most certainly not the only reason. the japanese have a totally different philosophy when it comes to working for a corporation...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_Z
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Old 10-04-2011, 12:53 AM Redrum is offline  
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cause obama didn't totally continue bush's policy of bailing out every bloating failied shitstain of a corporation while they used the money to help themselves to a healthy bonus

>Implying that anyone supports those policies


Tu quoque is pretty much all you do, huh?

Boring.
Old 10-04-2011, 12:53 AM Gibonius is offline  
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lol

>implying they didn't find ways around this via stock options and other tricks
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Old 10-04-2011, 12:54 AM Redrum is offline  
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>Implying that anyone supports those policies


Tu quoque is pretty much all you do, huh?

Boring.

lol no, just there's so little distinction between either party in this regard.

i really hope that a viable third party is formed from all of this. but unfortunately, that's just not the way things work in backward amerikkka.
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Old 10-04-2011, 12:55 AM Redrum is offline  
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i'm thinking of going out there to see if i can meet any like minded libertarians. probably fuck a few loose hipster hoors as well.
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Old 10-04-2011, 12:56 AM Redrum is offline  
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lol that's most certainly not the only reason. the japanese have a totally different philosophy when it comes to working for a corporation...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_Z

look at the fucking numbers dumbass. american auto companies spend more on health care costs for current workers and retirees per car made than they spend on steel for the car.

GM spends $1500 per car produced on health care for workers. If we had universal health care like japan or canada that number would be close to zero which would make them far more profitable.

that's why "american" cars are made in canada and mexico. one place has universal health care that costs employers next to nothing and the other place has no standards which costs employers next to nothing.

do you want to become more like mexico or do you want to become more like canada/europe?
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Old 10-04-2011, 12:58 AM pyramid is offline  
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I certainly don't want the US to become more like Japan. Talk about an unhealthy work/life balance. It's starting to really mess up their society too, the whole family structure is disintegrating as people don't have time/energy to raise kids. The US is already moving along that path and it's worrisome.

What good is 5% GDP growth obtained by making workers work harder and longer for no extra money? That's basically what we got in the 00's.
Old 10-04-2011, 01:03 AM Gibonius is offline  
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do you want to become more like mexico or do you want to become more like canada/europe?

it kind of all boils down to a crisis of character doesn't it. america was historically the country where people sacrificed the safety net of their ancestral homes for an opportunity to make a bit more money in a society with more opportunities to do, but with less margin for error. this was a fundamental part of america since the frontier days.

stronger social programs are of course a great thing if they can be paid for and are sustainable (not the case for example in PIIGS countries) but you have to remember this will always clash with the traditional identity of america of a nation of rugged individualists, where people migrate to on a gamble for a better life.
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Old 10-04-2011, 01:05 AM Redrum is offline  
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America has also been against institutional royalty. That's part of the underlying rage against "Wall Street," people are starting to resent this feeling that our corporate overlords control the country and do everything they can to use their power and money lobbying government to restrict the flow of wealth, making things better for themselves and disregarding everyone else.

It's not a libertarian movement, not sure you could classify it ideologically at all at this point really, but it shares some leanings.
Old 10-04-2011, 01:09 AM Gibonius is offline  
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