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Gold Ronin
 
Well, when you see a hand grenade, how can you know for certain that it's a dummy grenade. I can understand where the school is coming from in this case.
Old 10-12-2011, 09:21 AM Gold Ronin is offline  
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Well, when you see a hand grenade, how can you know for certain that it's a dummy grenade.

because it's in the hands of a third grader.
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Old 10-12-2011, 10:21 AM pyramid is offline  
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because it's in the hands of a third grader.

when i was in 5th grade i had access to live grenades through a friends nutcase vietnam vet dad who had a case of them in his living room. so i guess it's not impossible
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Old 10-12-2011, 10:23 AM IcW@teR is offline  
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because it's in the hands of a third grader.

Yep, this fake gun killed this two year old

http://www.gazette.net/article/20110...mplate=gazette
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Old 10-12-2011, 10:26 AM Coqui is offline  
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guns != grenades. real working guns are available anywhere. if you see one, assume it is real and loaded.

real live grenades are not available for sale to civilians pretty much anywhere in the modern western world. if you see one in a child's hand, chances are really very good that it is a deactivated dummy.
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Old 10-12-2011, 10:33 AM pyramid is offline  
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guns != grenades. real working guns are available anywhere. if you see one, assume it is real and loaded.

real live grenades are not available for sale to civilians pretty much anywhere in the modern western world. if you see one in a child's hand, chances are really very good that it is a deactivated dummy.

But if you were someone who's in charge of a large percentage of children, are you willing to risk it for that low percentage?
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Old 10-12-2011, 11:03 AM Coqui is offline  
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But if you were someone who's in charge of a large percentage of children, are you willing to risk it for that low percentage?

I would have taken the grenade away from the kid, called his parents about it, and would have probably given it back to them at the end of the day with instructions that it not be brought to school again.
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Old 10-12-2011, 11:10 AM pyramid is offline  
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I would have taken the grenade away from the kid, called his parents about it, and would have probably given it back to them at the end of the day with instructions that it not be brought to school again.

Would you ask a 60 year old English teacher to do the same? What if this were a traditionally high-violence area?
Old 10-12-2011, 11:11 AM Vendetta is offline  
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Would you ask a 60 year old English teacher to do the same? What if this were a traditionally high-violence area?


is there even a precedent anywhere for a violent 9 year old blowing up a feeble old english teacher with a hand grenade?
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Old 10-12-2011, 11:16 AM Baloneyflaps. is offline  
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Would you ask a 60 year old English teacher to do the same? What if this were a traditionally high-violence area?

A high violence area? like somalia? if you see a grenade in a kids hand in somalia, I would assume that it is real. If you see a grenade in a kids hand in america, I would assume that it is a paperweight.
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Old 10-12-2011, 11:21 AM pyramid is offline  
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is there even a precedent anywhere for a violent 9 year old blowing up a feeble old english teacher with a hand grenade?

There is precedent for a teacher to be concerned with something that looks like a weapon. I'm also willing to bet if you surveyed a big sample of old teachers, you wouldn't find many of them that knew absolutely that one could NOT get a hand grenade somewhere (particularly anti-gun nuts).

Many teachers are concerned that students bring in dangerous weapons--without intent to harm--that cause deadly accidents. Many teachers are also concerned with students bringing in improvised explosives--again, sometimes not intentionally.

All I am saying is that there is ample cause for concern, and asking a teacher to accept the risk of handling something that might be dangerous is a bit rash.
Old 10-12-2011, 11:30 AM Vendetta is offline  
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is there even a precedent anywhere for a violent 9 year old blowing up a feeble old english teacher with a hand grenade?

Does there need to be?
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Old 10-12-2011, 11:32 AM Coqui is offline  
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A high violence area? like somalia? if you see a grenade in a kids hand in somalia, I would assume that it is real. If you see a grenade in a kids hand in america, I would assume that it is a paperweight.

You would assume. That's great, for you. Remember that event I cited back in February? With the in-tact firing pin? The kid filled the hollowed grenade with something and then taped it up so it looked and felt just like a grenade.

Not everyone is familiar with, or comfortable around, firearms and explosive devices. They do not know the availability / procurement probability of such things. They do not know what exactly to look for to ensure that it is faked. Especialy how many faked weapons look real, and many real weapons can be made to look fake.

My argument is: you have a unique position. You know a lot about weapons, and as you have repeatedly stated, you would accept the risk associated with inspecting a weapon (with the added benefit of knowing in all likelihood it is no threat at all).

Teachers do not often ahve that luxury. They also are responsible for the lives of the other 30 kids in the classroom. In this situation, a teacher sees a grenade. They don't know for sure if it is real, or if it is fake. Or if it is faked, if it has been modified by some deviant to be dangerous. All extreme cases. But the appropriate thing to do is for the teacher to evac the classroom, and call someone who is capable of dealing with such a situation. Because if the teacher was WRONG, and it was dangerous, and tried to just inspect it....and boom? What is the bigger problem here?
Old 10-12-2011, 11:33 AM Vendetta is offline  
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basically repeated myself, nevermind
Old 10-12-2011, 11:41 AM Vendetta is offline  
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I would hope that teachers would have some common sense, but I guess that is too much to expect


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Old 10-12-2011, 11:45 AM Baloneyflaps. is offline  
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