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:ninja:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer_B View Post
Number of those incidents were mercen....Apologies. "Contractors".

Not all of them, obviously..

You mean the private contractors that made the government hemorrhage cash? THE PRIVATE SECTOR ALWAYS DOES A BETTER JOB FOR LESS MONEY!
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Old 10-24-2011, 04:57 PM :ninja: is offline  
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Redrum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caelum View Post
Even thats questionable.

Timeline: (this isnt Marine pride, this is really what happened)

Iraq invasion:
Marine and Army fight and take over a nation with the, whatever, 5th largest militaryin the world in like 14 days.
Marines patrol Iraqi borders with helos and planes getting positive ID and killing foreigners bringing weapons into Iraq to fight.
Marines withdraw...Army doesn't continue border protection
Army starts getting killed by insurgents in staggering amounts
Marines go back in to stabilize the Anbar province and do so over the course of a few years
Terror in Baghdad starts getting pretty heated, as well as most casualties outside of Baghdad are IED related.
EFP IEDs show up.......fuck our shit up. Shaped charges of hot lead goes through our armor like a hot knife through butter
Major IED mfg is killed in Sadr City I think
All starts to calm down but IEDs are still not uncommon as they're pretty easy to make.
We kill more foreign nationals
Slows down more

There were 3 or 4 slaughterhouses in Fallujah while I was there the first time. The people didn't necessarily want to plant bombs or shoot at us, but Zarqawis buddies would rape their 4 year old sons and daughters to death if they didnt. Then they would anyway....fucking monsters. The things that happened in that city under Zarqawis (A JORDANIAN BTW) order was...un...fucking...real. That chicken shit ducked out in some tunnels before we came in that fucking coward. But he got his eventually.

And guess why he was fighting us. Isreal. He was mad because of Isreal. Which was going on long before Iraq or Afghanistan. So to think he was only attacking us because we invaded Iraq...you're a fool if you think that. Fighting there kept the terrorists from building big enough resources to fight us in America, or Europe.
And who would you rather be fighting them? Marines and Army with near limitless resources, or your next door neighbor, or your kids soccer coach, or your mom, or you?

I know your answer.





I fought in the Battle of Fallujah and was there for their first elections in the same deployment. Those Iraqi people, who barely had homes to go back to because the battle was so ferocious, couldn't possibly have been more happy in that moment. Their purple finger tips...I'll never forget it. We worked with the cops in the city after the siege...they didn't speak a word of English but would just show their fingertips and cry. I will never forget that for as long as I live

was he really raping kids?

i'm not calling you a liar, just seems like really convenient propaganda. have you or any of your buddies personally seen this?
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Old 10-24-2011, 05:14 PM Redrum is offline  
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#47  

Vote McCain!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caelum View Post
Even thats questionable.

Timeline: (this isnt Marine pride, this is really what happened)

Iraq invasion:
Marine and Army fight and take over a nation with the, whatever, 5th largest militaryin the world in like 14 days.
Marines patrol Iraqi borders with helos and planes getting positive ID and killing foreigners bringing weapons into Iraq to fight.
Marines withdraw...Army doesn't continue border protection
Army starts getting killed by insurgents in staggering amounts
Marines go back in to stabilize the Anbar province and do so over the course of a few years
Terror in Baghdad starts getting pretty heated, as well as most casualties outside of Baghdad are IED related.
EFP IEDs show up.......fuck our shit up. Shaped charges of hot lead goes through our armor like a hot knife through butter
Major IED mfg is killed in Sadr City I think
All starts to calm down but IEDs are still not uncommon as they're pretty easy to make.
We kill more foreign nationals
Slows down more

There were 3 or 4 slaughterhouses in Fallujah while I was there the first time. The people didn't necessarily want to plant bombs or shoot at us, but Zarqawis buddies would rape their 4 year old sons and daughters to death if they didnt. Then they would anyway....fucking monsters. The things that happened in that city under Zarqawis (A JORDANIAN BTW) order was...un...fucking...real. That chicken shit ducked out in some tunnels before we came in that fucking coward. But he got his eventually.

My marine pride detector is off the charts.

Okay, that's all fine and dandy but you missed the point of my post. I'm not disputing the general timeline you laid out, I'm only speculating that the story could have been completely different. The way we intervened in Libya is the way we should have done it in Iraq; send in the drones instead of the boots on the ground and maybe 4400 of our fellow Americans would still be alive, Iraq wouldn't have been leveled for a second time, we wouldn't be another trillion in debt, and we wouldn't have had to rebuild absolutely everything from power lines to water treatment plants IN A FOREIGN FUCKING COUNTRY!

Quote:
And guess why he was fighting us. Isreal. He was mad because of Isreal. Which was going on long before Iraq or Afghanistan. So to think he was only attacking us because we invaded Iraq...you're a fool if you think that. Fighting there kept the terrorists from building big enough resources to fight us in America, or Europe.
And who would you rather be fighting them? Marines and Army with near limitless resources, or your next door neighbor, or your kids soccer coach, or your mom, or you?

I know your answer.
What does any of this have to do with my post on Libya? Where did I even mention Zarqawi? And if you think that proposing to send drones to fight saddam or ghaddafi rather than boots on the ground is somehow harmful or insulting to those in uniform, well, you have a real superiority complex; it's the kind of false superiority F-22 raptor pilots feel when they look at drone pilots.

FYI Zarqawi was not the only terrorist that was fighting us for reasons beyond Iraq and Afghanistan (see: Bin Laden). But if we had waited for a Libya-type situation to develop, followed by the institution of a no-fly zone and daily bombings on saddam's military targets while simultaneously covertly supporting revolutionary elements, we could have achieved the fall of Saddam followed by a much more expeditious transfer of power to the people of Iraq, all while incurring far fewer American casualties.

Quote:
I fought in the Battle of Fallujah and was there for their first elections in the same deployment. Those Iraqi people, who barely had homes to go back to because the battle was so ferocious, couldn't possibly have been more happy in that moment. Their purple finger tips...I'll never forget it. We worked with the cops in the city after the siege...they didn't speak a word of English but would just show their fingertips and cry. I will never forget that for as long as I live
Good for you, and thank you for serving. Was it worth it? Was being lied to by your government worth it? Was being sent to invade a foreign country that had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11 and posed zero threat to us worth it? Yeah, Saddam was a shit head and needed to be taken out, but we didn't need to spend nine years, 1 trillion bucks, and 4400 dead Americans to do it.

Last time I checked, we were never on the verge of speaking Iraqi. Last time I checked, there were no Iraqi troops amassing on the Canadian border. Even if Saddam DID have any WMDs, he didn't even have an air force with the capability of delivering those weapons on a target that was a couple hundred miles away! So again, I ask you, was it worth it?
Old 10-24-2011, 05:16 PM Vote McCain! is offline  
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#48  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caelum View Post
Don't forget about those millions of Iraqis that got to vote.

Oh wait, it ins't convenient for your argument about how America is wrong, so you will
and that the secret police dont take them away in the night anymore, and that their dictator wont decide to test chemical weapons on their ethnic tribes anymore, etc...
Old 10-24-2011, 05:25 PM Forever Domon is offline  
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Look guys, we were attacked by Saudis and Yemenis who were trained in Afghanistan so the logical thing to do was invade Iraq and that was such a raging success it made Gaddafi surrender in Libya.

What are you guys not understanding about this?

:coolface:
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Old 10-24-2011, 05:44 PM pyramid is offline  
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#50  

Forever Domon
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyramid View Post
Look guys, we were attacked by Saudis and Yemenis who were trained in Afghanistan so the logical thing to do was invade Iraq and that was such a raging success it made Gaddafi surrender in Libya.

What are you guys not understanding about this?

:coolface:
dont worry, we're in yemen now.
Old 10-24-2011, 05:48 PM Forever Domon is offline  
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#51  

Forever Domon
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caelum View Post
Even thats questionable.

Timeline: (this isnt Marine pride, this is really what happened)

Iraq invasion:
Marine and Army fight and take over a nation with the, whatever, 5th largest militaryin the world in like 14 days.
Marines patrol Iraqi borders with helos and planes getting positive ID and killing foreigners bringing weapons into Iraq to fight.
Marines withdraw...Army doesn't continue border protection
Army starts getting killed by insurgents in staggering amounts
Marines go back in to stabilize the Anbar province and do so over the course of a few years
Terror in Baghdad starts getting pretty heated, as well as most casualties outside of Baghdad are IED related.
EFP IEDs show up.......fuck our shit up. Shaped charges of hot lead goes through our armor like a hot knife through butter
Major IED mfg is killed in Sadr City I think
All starts to calm down but IEDs are still not uncommon as they're pretty easy to make.
We kill more foreign nationals
Slows down more

There were 3 or 4 slaughterhouses in Fallujah while I was there the first time. The people didn't necessarily want to plant bombs or shoot at us, but Zarqawis buddies would rape their 4 year old sons and daughters to death if they didnt. Then they would anyway....fucking monsters. The things that happened in that city under Zarqawis (A JORDANIAN BTW) order was...un...fucking...real. That chicken shit ducked out in some tunnels before we came in that fucking coward. But he got his eventually.

And guess why he was fighting us. Isreal. He was mad because of Isreal. Which was going on long before Iraq or Afghanistan. So to think he was only attacking us because we invaded Iraq...you're a fool if you think that. Fighting there kept the terrorists from building big enough resources to fight us in America, or Europe.
And who would you rather be fighting them? Marines and Army with near limitless resources, or your next door neighbor, or your kids soccer coach, or your mom, or you?

I know your answer.





I fought in the Battle of Fallujah and was there for their first elections in the same deployment. Those Iraqi people, who barely had homes to go back to because the battle was so ferocious, couldn't possibly have been more happy in that moment. Their purple finger tips...I'll never forget it. We worked with the cops in the city after the siege...they didn't speak a word of English but would just show their fingertips and cry. I will never forget that for as long as I live
that was goddamn satisfying when we dropped two 500lb bombs on Zarqawi's safehouse after watching him go in. Tunnel out of that fucker.
Old 10-24-2011, 05:54 PM Forever Domon is offline  
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#52  

Forever Domon
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redrum View Post
was he really raping kids?

i'm not calling you a liar, just seems like really convenient propaganda. have you or any of your buddies personally seen this?
yes, zarqawi was a psycho. He loved his torture, didnt care who it was either, at some point I think he said he was going to kill every Shia out there, and then starting doing it.
Old 10-24-2011, 05:55 PM Forever Domon is offline  
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#53  

Forever Domon
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vote McCain! View Post
My marine pride detector is off the charts.

Okay, that's all fine and dandy but you missed the point of my post. I'm not disputing the general timeline you laid out, I'm only speculating that the story could have been completely different. The way we intervened in Libya is the way we should have done it in Iraq; send in the drones instead of the boots on the ground and maybe 4400 of our fellow Americans would still be alive, Iraq wouldn't have been leveled for a second time, we wouldn't be another trillion in debt, and we wouldn't have had to rebuild absolutely everything from power lines to water treatment plants IN A FOREIGN FUCKING COUNTRY!



What does any of this have to do with my post on Libya? Where did I even mention Zarqawi? And if you think that proposing to send drones to fight saddam or ghaddafi rather than boots on the ground is somehow harmful or insulting to those in uniform, well, you have a real superiority complex; it's the kind of false superiority F-22 raptor pilots feel when they look at drone pilots.

FYI Zarqawi was not the only terrorist that was fighting us for reasons beyond Iraq and Afghanistan (see: Bin Laden). But if we had waited for a Libya-type situation to develop, followed by the institution of a no-fly zone and daily bombings on saddam's military targets while simultaneously covertly supporting revolutionary elements, we could have achieved the fall of Saddam followed by a much more expeditious transfer of power to the people of Iraq, all while incurring far fewer American casualties.



Good for you, and thank you for serving. Was it worth it? Was being lied to by your government worth it? Was being sent to invade a foreign country that had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11 and posed zero threat to us worth it? Yeah, Saddam was a shit head and needed to be taken out, but we didn't need to spend nine years, 1 trillion bucks, and 4400 dead Americans to do it.

Last time I checked, we were never on the verge of speaking Iraqi. Last time I checked, there were no Iraqi troops amassing on the Canadian border. Even if Saddam DID have any WMDs, he didn't even have an air force with the capability of delivering those weapons on a target that was a couple hundred miles away! So again, I ask you, was it worth it?
probably because we didnt have drones then. UAVs were basically engineering prototypes before the invasion. The Iraq war drove their evolution 15 years in 3 years.
Old 10-24-2011, 05:57 PM Forever Domon is offline  
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#54  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forever Domon View Post
dont worry, we're in yemen now.

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Old 10-24-2011, 05:59 PM pyramid is offline  
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Old 10-24-2011, 06:15 PM cc88 is offline  
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Old 10-24-2011, 06:21 PM pyramid is offline  
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Redrum
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Originally Posted by Forever Domon View Post
yes, zarqawi was a psycho. He loved his torture, didnt care who it was either, at some point I think he said he was going to kill every Shia out there, and then starting doing it.

whatever happened to ethical freedom fighters...
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Old 10-24-2011, 07:11 PM Redrum is offline  
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I still blame Bush because he is a coward who had the chance to prevent all of this (in multiple ways).
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Old 10-24-2011, 07:24 PM edplayer is offline  
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>arabs have been violent sectarians for millennia with a culturally ingrained lust for blood
>blame bush

gotcha
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Old 10-24-2011, 07:26 PM Redrum is offline  
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