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Zangmonkey
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Originally Posted by Vote McCain! View Post
No, I agree. Without communication over the internet there would probably still be dictators ruling Egypt and Tunisia.

So this idea of supporting democracy to combat terrorism and fanaticism is not Obama's. It just so happens that the world is different now than a decade ago.
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Old 10-25-2011, 01:52 PM Zangmonkey is offline  
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Vote McCain!
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Originally Posted by Zangmonkey View Post
So this idea of supporting democracy to combat terrorism and fanaticism is not Obama's. It just so happens that the world is different now than a decade ago.

In the course of human events, nothing is static.
Old 10-25-2011, 01:54 PM Vote McCain! is offline  
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Zangmonkey
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In the course of human events, nothing is static.

So you acknowledge that something which may have been unnecessary a decade ago may not be necessary now?
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Old 10-25-2011, 02:59 PM Zangmonkey is offline  
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Originally Posted by Zangmonkey View Post
So this idea of supporting democracy to combat terrorism and fanaticism is not Obama's. It just so happens that the world is different now than a decade ago.

With 9/11, we joined the rest of the world's 21st century.

Also, the police state isn't coming.....It's here.
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Old 10-25-2011, 03:37 PM Killer_B is offline  
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asa
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Originally Posted by Vote McCain! View Post

really? that's the extent of your counter-argument?
do you know how long it takes the military to adapt to a new way of doing things? especially something like sending in only drones and no troops?
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Old 10-25-2011, 04:15 PM asa is offline  
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TheMorlock
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you mean the largely untested and untried drones? yeah, that'll go over well with the pentagon

but we should have tested them in WWII and then we would not have needed the A Bomb
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Old 10-25-2011, 11:39 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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Vote McCain!
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really? that's the extent of your counter-argument?
do you know how long it takes the military to adapt to a new way of doing things? especially something like sending in only drones and no troops?

It seemed to go over pretty damn quickly, drone attacks have been going on in Yemen since '02. We've been doing it in pakistan since '04. Maybe the reason we didn't adopt this strategy over full on invasion was because the former CEO of a major military contractor was vice president at the time? Maybe the reason for full on invasion was because Cheney's former company (in which he owns stock) would get a few multi-million dollar no bid contracts for rebuilding Iraqi infrastructure THAT WE DESTROYED WHEN WE PUT OUR TROOPS ON THE GROUND!!!!!

Also, suppose we focused on Afghanistan instead of a pointless invasion of Iraq, and instead used the experience in Afghanistan to inform the development our new technology. If we were to simply wait for a revolutionary movement in Iraq,do you really think think that a series of UAV attacks and air strike attacks couldn't have crippled saddam's military capabilities while we empower a revolutionary movement on the ground?
Old 10-25-2011, 11:54 PM Vote McCain! is offline  
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[H]ard|On
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HAY GUYZ LET'S CUT TAXES AND LOSE 700 BILLION IN REVENUE OVER 10 YEARS THEN START TWO UNFUNDED WARS COSTING A TRILLION BUCKS! OH MAN I'M LIKE THE SMARTEST PRESIDENT EVER!

It's so simple but so fucking hard to understand for the republican voters.


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Bush's war: A good long, hard fucking + pull out method

Obama's war: Just the tip + we'll call you



Send this in to Bill maher, he'll give you ten bucks through pay pal. Maybe 5, he's half jewish.
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Old 10-26-2011, 12:49 AM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Originally Posted by Zangmonkey View Post
The premise is that the best long-term global defense against terrorism is to embolden people and modern society in dictatorial shitholes.

The internet and wireless communication is helping this tremendously now in ways it couldn't a decade ago.

Or do you disagree with the idea that giving people something to value in their own home and a more-modern society will encourage them to resist radical influence?

What you are talking about is not done with an army that puts Hitler's Afrika Corps to shame, it's done with COUNTER TERRORISM measures and humanitarian aid. You know, Rainbow Six shit. Basically what Obama has done, and what USED to happen until Bush and his sad cabinet sold us this crock of shit war.
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Old 10-26-2011, 12:52 AM [H]ard|On is offline  
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cc88
 
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Never said that before, but now that you mention it...
When drones can go into buildings and clear rooms killing only the enemy and not friendlies, you let me know. If you think that those missiles get fired at every target they see you're 100% wrong. If there's a chance there will be collateral damage, 9/10 times they wont be fired. I promise you. I shot 155mm howitzers in Fallujah and we fired more rounds than any 4 units since Vietnam but we laid in on 50x - 100x more targets than we got clearance to fire on because the target was too close to something we didn't want to destroy. We were 5 miles from Fallujah. But what CAN use judgement is real eyes on target. A good marksman could take out a mortar team set up in a school yard a few hundred yards away, but we (artillery), nor predator drones could ever get clearance to fire on that target.

people controlling drones =/= people firing arty
drones arent accountable and those controlling them dont need the go ahead to waste ammo on anything
Old 10-26-2011, 01:36 PM cc88 is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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Originally Posted by why_ask_why View Post
the people of both countries got raped

Americans were barely affected. Iraqi society was nearly completely destroyed on every level. There isn't any equivalence here.
Old 10-26-2011, 01:39 PM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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Originally Posted by Redrum View Post
>arabs have been violent sectarians for millennia with a culturally ingrained lust for blood
>blame bush

gotcha

True, really makes you wonder how Europeans keep getting the upper hand on this whole global mass murder and colonization thing. Must be their culture also makes them lazy.
Old 10-26-2011, 01:42 PM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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yeah, those got dealt with in accordance to the UCMJ
also, why the fuck does that make them trigger-happy, or rednecks?

lmao

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/trav...y-ignored.html
This is a worst case example but it shows you how far things can go before anyone bothers to do anything about it. It's really easy to google many soldier testimonials about how casually civilian deaths were/are treated and how easy they can be covered up or ignored.
Old 10-26-2011, 01:44 PM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Why_Ask_Why
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Americans were barely affected. Iraqi society was nearly completely destroyed on every level. There isn't any equivalence here.

we were raped of trillions of dollars. different kind of rape than they got but still pretty damned painful
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Old 10-26-2011, 01:47 PM Why_Ask_Why is offline  
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JoePits
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if u blame bush but not obama ur stupid cuz they are all in the same club. doesn't matter who was elected the same shit would have happened.
Old 10-26-2011, 02:39 PM JoePits is offline  
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