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Redrum
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first past the post is the problem

electoral college has some benefits in that it prevents Wyoming from being completeley dominated by politics in new york or cali

on the other hand having such a strong, centralized executive branch was never in the vision for those who framed the constitution
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Old 12-12-2011, 01:41 PM Redrum is offline  
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if everyone there thinks like you there is no wonder why it is a republican bunker.

how do you ever expect to get anything done if your default position is that of apathy and forfeit?

half the people who are eligible to vote in your state probably don't even bother because of that same thinking. if they actually bothered to get off their asses and do something they might find they were actually in the majority all along.

The "representatives" who have the electoral votes in each state pledge their vote to a specific party in advance. So whichever party wins the majority of the popular vote in that state wins the electoral vote from their chosen electoral representative.

Just because we don't "directly" elect the president doesn't mean our votes don't count.

Not directed at you, Pyramid. I just wanted to emphasize what you said and add my own 2 cents.
Old 12-12-2011, 02:17 PM Sabbster]# is offline  
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Perhaps you might motivate yourself and others to change how your state handles its electoral college votes?
Your option (and obligation) as a citizen is to work for change in your government.

It's a valid point.

Perhaps we only have a slight difference in policies between corporate republicrat A, and corporate demopublican B;

Your local, and state elections are where the real action is; And not even so much with regards to Governors, or even Congressmen. Your local school boards are a perfect place to start...It's being a bit simplistic to state that's where the whole problem with schools stem from, but in the areas of the country where even Neocons feel things are still too liberal, you have stupid ballot initiatives like book bannings, initiatives that tend to go hand in hand with homophobia, or mandates that creationism (while kicking evolution out) be taught in public schools.

Something to consider...
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Old 12-12-2011, 04:43 PM Killer_B is offline  
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When every other person in my state gets your memo, I'll consider voting.

Be a trendsetter, dawg.
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Old 12-12-2011, 05:20 PM pyramid is offline  
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Originally Posted by Redrum View Post
first past the post is the problem

electoral college has some benefits in that it prevents Wyoming from being completeley dominated by politics in new york or cali

on the other hand having such a strong, centralized executive branch was never in the vision for those who framed the constitution

No

That is such an old tired line of horse crap... What does Wyoming want that we don't? Feds told Montana to drop the speed limit from 80 to 65 and Montana bent over and did it. With the electoral college. It's an outdated non-concern fabricated by rednecks who didn't want to give up slavery. I support individual state rights, BUT this convoluted bureaucratic abortion we call a college is not saving them at all, is it?

Electoral college is not about state rights, it's about swaying global policy - specifically slavery at it's inception... so go ahead and keep making up shit about why it's a good thing

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Some delegates, including James Wilson and James Madison, preferred popular election of the executive. Madison acknowledged that while a popular vote would be ideal, it would be difficult to get consensus on the proposal given the prevalence of slavery in the South:[9]
Read up you may learn something

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elector...%29#Background
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Last edited by [H]ard|On; 12-13-2011 at 06:08 AM..
Old 12-13-2011, 06:02 AM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Perhaps you might motivate yourself and others to change how your state handles its electoral college votes?
Your option (and obligation) as a citizen is to work for change in your government.

I agree, people deserve their own government. This is also why smaller countries are easier to run by the people - we are too distanced from our leadership.

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If we had proportional representation, there would be no problem with the Electoral College in that regard.


Then it wouldn't be electoral college, which is a stupid name anyway - it would be 'voting' but yes lol
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:05 AM [H]ard|On is offline  
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If we had proportional representation, there would be no problem with the Electoral College in that regard.

Your vote is your representation, we shouldnt need anything more than that to represent our stance on any voted position or legislature. Instead we vote for which two of four old fuckwitts (per state) with political degrees and minors in business get to decide the fate of many.

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Originally Posted by pyramid View Post
if everyone there thinks like you there is no wonder why it is a republican bunker.

how do you ever expect to get anything done if your default position is that of apathy and forfeit?

half the people who are eligible to vote in your state probably don't even bother because of that same thinking. if they actually bothered to get off their asses and do something they might find they were actually in the majority all along.

For the record, I still vote. I merely spare myself the delusions of grandeur and difference that my well thought out vote makes in regards to how my country is run.
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:33 PM DopefishLives is offline  
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Your vote is your representation, we shouldnt need anything more than that to represent our stance on any voted position or legislature. Instead we vote for which two of four old fuckwitts (per state) with political degrees and minors in business get to decide the fate of many. .



It's a lot more than two for most states, and there are been perilously few faithless electors in the history of the US (none of which have ever made any difference in the outcome).


The merits of directly electing the President have been gone over time and time again. I like the idea of the smaller states having a very slightly increased importance. The big downsides all come from the all-or-nothing nature of most states assignment of their electors, it's nothing intrinsic to the process. If you win 50.1% of the vote in Nebraska, for example, you only get 50% of the electors (rounding up). If the whole country did that, we'd have a much better system without the sense of "worthless votes."
Old 12-13-2011, 07:12 PM Gibonius is offline  
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BORKED
It's not about people's votes being equal, it's about certain areas not having more say or influence on who is elected just because they have more people. And what about smaller states, they can just get overlooked if the electoral college wasn't set up the way it is. Sure the larger states to have more representatives, but I don't think the number of electoral college votes is in direct proportion to the number of citizens a state has.
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Old 12-13-2011, 07:38 PM cokezeroholic is offline  
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I voted for Christopher Walken last time. Mostly because the campaign was hilarious. I'm not sure who I am going to vote for next time, I'm sure I'll figure it out by next year, though.
Old 12-13-2011, 07:42 PM gribly is offline  
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I'm voting for Obama again. He's doing a great job. He'd be even better if he would just manhandle congress instead of wearing the kid gloves, but whatever... he's educated and has plans that work. He's worlds better than every single GOP candidate.
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Old 12-13-2011, 07:52 PM :ninja: is offline  
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Plus the GOP wants to take the country back to the dark ages. Tear down all infrastructure and let the churches and companies rule. Yeah, no thanks
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Old 12-13-2011, 07:54 PM :ninja: is offline  
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It's a lot more than two for most states, and there are been perilously few faithless electors in the history of the US (none of which have ever made any difference in the outcome).

It was a generalization as the voting power goes to fraction of the representatives based upon how the citizens vote, then they vote for whom they support. It is a flawed system -- for instance, states may not be of equal population, but that doesn't mean all members of a state think/vote the same way just because of where they live. Voting as individuals is the most accurate way to deliver everyone's opinion/vote.
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Old 12-13-2011, 08:19 PM DopefishLives is offline  
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It was a generalization as the voting power goes to fraction of the representatives based upon how the citizens vote, then they vote for whom they
support.
That's certainly how it functions, but I'm not getting why that's a problem. That's how primaries work too but nobody bitches about it, and it works just fine. What's the negative about voting for an elector, if they faithfully pass on their mandate nearly 100% of the time?

Quote:
It is a flawed system -- for instance, states may not be of equal population, but that doesn't mean all members of a state think/vote the same way just because of where they live.
That problem would be addressed by proportional representation.
Quote:
Voting as individuals is the most accurate way to deliver everyone's opinion/vote.
The issue is really that the President is not just a representative of the people, he's supposed to represent the overall interests of the nation. Basically all the two electoral vote states would get utterly ignored if we went to a direct vote. I don't think that consequence is worth removing the Electoral College, when the majority of the flaws would be more simply addressed by simply assigning the electors proportionally to the votes instead of winner-take-all.
Old 12-13-2011, 08:33 PM Gibonius is offline  
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Plus the GOP wants to take the country back to the dark ages. Tear down all infrastructure and let the churches and companies rule. Yeah, no thanks

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