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Private business tends to try and overvalue the product they sell (make the largest profit possible), while government, through it's intrinsic nature of doing business, overvalues things by default (producer wants their cut, contractor their cut, various middlemen, in addition to the cost of materials, labor, and all else that goes on), thus both private and public sectors create a sort of hidden inflation. I'm still amazed that few people see it that way, but I understand it. Anything above and beyond the cost of production is called gross profit. What a vague and extremely broad definition! Even with net profit, there still is no accounting of the cost of overvaluing a product. Normally, people seeking the lowest price possible kept this "inflation" in check. Now, people just take whatever price is given to them by corporations because no one has the brains or balls to not purchase items (Keeping up with the Joneses, are you?), since production of most everything is so heavily regulated in their favor. Thus, competition is reduced, and anti-trust laws are gotten around by the concepts of the holding and parent company. Therefore, the anti-trust laws have failed in their intended purpose of diversifying markets, increasing competition, and reducing the price of goods (and therefore profit margin in order to combat this "inflation").

I say we let the system collapse this time. Let their inflation scheme ruin them and the country so we never forget this lesson: Greed can only lead to ruin.
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Old 01-30-2012, 07:34 PM Jack's raging erection is offline  
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Private business tends to try and overvalue the product they sell (make the largest profit possible), while government, through it's intrinsic nature of doing business, overvalues things by default (producer wants their cut, contractor their cut, various middlemen, in addition to the cost of materials, labor, and all else that goes on), thus both private and public sectors create a sort of hidden inflation. I'm still amazed that few people see it that way, but I understand it. Anything above and beyond the cost of production is called gross profit. What a vague and extremely broad definition! Even with net profit, there still is no accounting of the cost of overvaluing a product. Normally, people seeking the lowest price possible kept this "inflation" in check. Now, people just take whatever price is given to them by corporations because no one has the brains or balls to not purchase items (Keeping up with the Joneses, are you?), since production of most everything is so heavily regulated in their favor. Thus, competition is reduced, and anti-trust laws are gotten around by the concepts of the holding and parent company. Therefore, the anti-trust laws have failed in their intended purpose of diversifying markets, increasing competition, and reducing the price of goods (and therefore profit margin in order to combat this "inflation").

I say we let the system collapse this time. Let their inflation scheme ruin them and the country so we never forget this lesson: Greed can only lead to ruin.


Okay but for example we let the government handle our water. The water is much safer than let's say in mexico. The bill is not low but it's reasonable. I can see it going up a lot more often if it was a private company. The point is not to "recognize" that a public system has room for corruption, but to recognize that at least we have a say in it. We can monitor it and keep the corruption down.

You can't do that with a private company - they do what they want. The idea of supply and demand always making everything perfect on it's own has been proven to be false many times over. This is why we had to pass regulation to limit monopolies and things of that nature.
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Old 01-30-2012, 07:52 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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I try to keep my posts readable in under fifteen minutes. I really do. In that process, finer points of argument are omitted. That said, if you really want to do the water argument, see bottled water vs. tap water. If you're up for it, determine the volume of bottled water sold vs. tap water consumed. If they're remotely close to equal, not only does that mean the average person is fucking retarded, it would give you an idea of what it would be like if we privatized water. It's in line with your thesis, but scale the volume and watch what happens. It would be population control (What? You still think the government is full of care bears? More like pedobears.), only faster!
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Old 01-30-2012, 11:22 PM Jack's raging erection is offline  
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For the record I installed a 5 stage Watts reverse osmosis system No bottled water here.
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Old 01-30-2012, 11:59 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Old 01-31-2012, 12:42 AM mikeawesome is offline  
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Building infrastructure (in present terms, rebuilding it) vs. the TSA: One benefits all, increases productivity, and made things happen while providing jobs to millions of unemployed. The other is a MASSIVE waste of resources that cuts down on productivity and isn't anywhere near doing what it's designed to do. With employees of double digit IQ receiving triple digit pay for the sole purpose of searching through your luggage to find out how many shit stains you have on your underwear so you can waste four hours of your life at an airport. That's if they don't find anything. But you feel safer... at the cost of an unknown amount to the airport/airlines through lost traffic volume (People don't want their kids fondled by Michael Jackson at the airport. He didn't die, he just wanted to be a TSA agent). Why not see how much of that "Homeland Security" we can get rid of, along with other absolutely useless government programs and put those resources toward another Works Progress Administration? Didn't that work out well for us? Are we not in need of something like it? Are we in a position where the deficit has grown so large that we pissed that opportunity away?

What is wrong with hiring a group of people to build/rebuild a factory and then offering training and a steady job in the factory they just built/repaired? I don't see where this can go wrong, since we can pay for it through balance of trade. Yes, I understand that it was a huge mistake to piss away all of our manufacturing to China (Thank you, Nixon, and every political cocksucker since then!), but surely there must be some agreement that benefits both. It ought to be a moot point anyway, since China has a fairly large manufacturing infrastructure. Let them figure out how to market and use it.
Is it really a mystery why the people who own everything would prefer to make more money with the current economic arrangement than to have profits be significantly reduced by employing Western workers
Old 01-31-2012, 02:15 PM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Neither the politician or the car salesman has any obligation, responsibility, motivation to EVER inform anybody that they are mistaken, unless the misunderstanding directly relates to the politician/car salesman standing there.

Would Obama have behaved differently? Maybe, maybe not. I wouldn't object if he didn't.

I mean... NEWSFLASH!! politicians fight dirty...How do you think these town hall meetings went back in the day before people had the Internet, before every cellphone in the room was capturing video.

This is Obama's fault. 100%.

Santorum isn't perpetuating the lie. Or even bringing up the topic of Obama's religious affiliation.
Seems like your arbitrarily defining what their responsibility is or isn't. It's his responsibility if people feel that it is.
Old 01-31-2012, 02:19 PM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Originally Posted by Jack's raging erection View Post
Private business tends to try and overvalue the product they sell (make the largest profit possible), while government, through it's intrinsic nature of doing business, overvalues things by default (producer wants their cut, contractor their cut, various middlemen, in addition to the cost of materials, labor, and all else that goes on), thus both private and public sectors create a sort of hidden inflation. I'm still amazed that few people see it that way, but I understand it. Anything above and beyond the cost of production is called gross profit. What a vague and extremely broad definition! Even with net profit, there still is no accounting of the cost of overvaluing a product. Normally, people seeking the lowest price possible kept this "inflation" in check. Now, people just take whatever price is given to them by corporations because no one has the brains or balls to not purchase items (Keeping up with the Joneses, are you?), since production of most everything is so heavily regulated in their favor. Thus, competition is reduced, and anti-trust laws are gotten around by the concepts of the holding and parent company. Therefore, the anti-trust laws have failed in their intended purpose of diversifying markets, increasing competition, and reducing the price of goods (and therefore profit margin in order to combat this "inflation").

I say we let the system collapse this time. Let their inflation scheme ruin them and the country so we never forget this lesson: Greed can only lead to ruin.

The Western capitalist system has already collapsed before. After a decade of prosperity had returned it was all forgotten about. Nothing was learned and people suffering during that time was meaningless, cruel and arbitrary (as they appear to the average person) suffering due to economic collapse won't do anything except harm the average person. Capitalists don't care at all about long term lessons, only profit within a given time frame (which at most might be =<5 years).
Old 01-31-2012, 02:23 PM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Seems like your arbitrarily defining what their responsibility is or isn't. It's his responsibility if people feel that it is.

I looked up the definition of conniving for him.
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Old 01-31-2012, 03:03 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Reducing income tax and forcing people who make millions to pay over 30% - that's another beer to chug!

and what exactly is the problem with this? the top marginal tax rate is STILL lower than it was during clinton's boom years and the top tenth of 1 percent still have more money and power than they have ever had at any time in the nation's history. If we let the bush tax cuts expire we could eliminate the deficit entirely. Add in the fact that some government agencies need to be trimmed, consolidated, or closed altogether, as well as the fact that obama is winding down the wars, and we would also have enough money to start paying back our national debt, maybe spend a little on infrastructure at home. How about we replace the Sellwood bridge in portland instead of building a bridge in afghanistan just so that 9-year-old Achmed can go blow it up suicide style.
Old 01-31-2012, 05:45 PM Vote McCain! is offline  
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Republicans: Obama is an asshole because of the deficits.

Obama: So lets raise taxes on the rich...

Republicans: Obama is an asshole for trying to fix the deficits.

You just can't win when the other side is all irrationality and rage.
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Old 01-31-2012, 06:21 PM pyramid is offline  
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Old 01-31-2012, 06:38 PM pyramid is offline  
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Republicans: Obama is an asshole because of the deficits.

Obama: So lets raise taxes on the rich...

Republicans: Obama is an asshole for trying to fix the deficits.

You just can't win when the other side is all irrationality and rage.

he talked about closing loopholes that have been talked about for half a century.... except oh wait - this is his first time mentioning for the 3 years he has been in office

Durrrrrrrrr hurrrrrrrrrrrrr
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Old 01-31-2012, 06:54 PM s0me0nesmind1 is offline  
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and what exactly is the problem with this? the top marginal tax rate is STILL lower than it was during clinton's boom years and the top tenth of 1 percent still have more money and power than they have ever had at any time in the nation's history. If we let the bush tax cuts expire we could eliminate the deficit entirely. Add in the fact that some government agencies need to be trimmed, consolidated, or closed altogether, as well as the fact that obama is winding down the wars, and we would also have enough money to start paying back our national debt, maybe spend a little on infrastructure at home. How about we replace the Sellwood bridge in portland instead of building a bridge in afghanistan just so that 9-year-old Achmed can go blow it up suicide style.

absolutely NOTHING wrong with that. That wasn't the point of this thread at all. The problem is, he has never once talked about these loopholes while he has been elected. These is age old shit that has been talked about a million times but morons here keep saying it like Obama is the first to discover these things

Nevertheless, the point of this thread was shit he was spewing for votes like it's a free campaign rally for everyone to view. Once again the point of this was, he never promised shit because he know it won't get done.
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Old 01-31-2012, 06:57 PM s0me0nesmind1 is offline  
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