General [M]ayhem

Go Back   General [M]ayhem > Real Time Sub-Forums > The Pit
Register Members List Mark Forums Read [M]erchandise Calendar

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Gibonius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RuHo View Post
"capitalism has worked very well until about now"
-some dude on the internet who forgets world history and the fact the majority of people in the world are dirt poor because of a capitalist system that seeks to exploit people for profit

An even greater majority of people were poor prior to capitalism, if we want to get into history.
Old 03-10-2012, 07:32 AM Gibonius is offline  
Reply With Quote
#61  

Advertisement [Remove Advertisement]

Straw Man
RuHo
And my head I'd be scratchin' while my thoughts were busy hatchin; If I only had a brain......
 
Straw Man's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
An even greater majority of people were poor prior to capitalism, if we want to get into history.
Well, I wouldn't exactly argue capitalism was born when the US was born, but I guess some uptight puritans would want to argue against that (not referring to you by any means)
edit: and rather, what I meant by that was that some people are obviously excluded in a cute phrase like "capitalism has worked very well until about now", try living in africa or some other (neo)colonial shithole
__________________
"dogs came to man to make friends and help us hunt and guard unlike pigs"
-lolergay

Last edited by RuHo; 03-10-2012 at 07:50 AM..
Old 03-10-2012, 07:44 AM Straw Man is offline  
Reply With Quote
#62  

Gibonius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RuHo View Post
Well, I wouldn't exactly argue capitalism was born when the US was born, but I guess some uptight puritans would want to argue against that (not referring to you by any means)
edit: and rather, what I meant by that was that some people are obviously excluded in a cute phrase like "capitalism has worked very well until about now", try living in africa or some other (neo)colonial shithole

I mean, it has worked relatively well though, even if you look at some shithole. They were a shithole before capitalism came along (not to mention imperialism/colonialism is not necessarily linked to capitalism) and simply haven't gotten much of the benefits. Overall standard of living has gone up a whole lot since the old feudal/tribal/whatever days prior to capitalism becoming widespread. It's not like we have some tested alternative system waiting in the wings that's obviously going to work better for the majority of the world, much less everybody.

Christians have their "Jesus will come back and fix the world," fruitbats like Patriotic Eagle have "someday a real Communist system (or whatever the fuck he calls his ideology) will get implemented." Seems like a fairy tale to me, I'm more interested in trying to see how to fix the problems in the overall productive system we have.
Old 03-10-2012, 08:07 PM Gibonius is offline  
Reply With Quote
#63  

Killer_B
 
Killer_B's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack's raging erection View Post
Are we there yet? Did we fuck it up? Mission accomplished.

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.

I am your plumber
No I never went away
I still bug your bedrooms
And pick up everything you say
It can be a boring job
To monitor all day your excess talk

I hear when you're drinking
And cheating on your lonely wife
I play tape recordings
Of you to my friends at night

We've got our girl in bed with you
You're on candid camera
We just un-elected you! OH-Ho!

I am the owl
I seek out the foul
Wipe 'em away
Keep America free
For clean livin' folks like me

If you demonstrate
Against somebody we like
I'll slip on my wig
And see if I can start a riot
Transform you to an angry mob
All your leaders go to jail for my job

But we ain't the Russians
Political trials are taboo
We've got our secret
Ways of getting rid of you
Fill you full of LSD
Then turn you loose on a freeway, WHEEEEE!

I am the owl
I seek out the foul
Wipe 'em away
Keep America free
For clean livin' folks like me

Send you spinning
Send you spinning
Send you spinning all over the freeway
Spinning on the crowded freeway
Spinning on the freeway
Spinning on the freeway
Spin
Spin
Spin-Look out!

The press, they never even cared
Why a youth leader walked into a speeding car
In ten years we'll leak the truth
By then it's only so much papaer

You know, Watergate HURT!
But nothing really ever changed
A teeny bit quieter,
But we still play our little games

We still play our little games
We still play our little games
We still play our little games
We still play a lot of games!

I am the owl
I seek out the foul
Wipe 'em away
Keep America free
For me!
__________________
Gen[M]ay. Who needs members? We have mods.

Founding [M]ember of the GENTLY CARESS EA Club.

Then the network comes back up. And then down again. Up... and down. It keeps going down like a Clinton intern.
Old 03-10-2012, 08:48 PM Killer_B is offline  
Reply With Quote
#64  

Straw Man
RuHo
And my head I'd be scratchin' while my thoughts were busy hatchin; If I only had a brain......
 
Straw Man's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
I mean, it has worked relatively well though, even if you look at some shithole. They were a shithole before capitalism came along (not to mention imperialism/colonialism is not necessarily linked to capitalism) and simply haven't gotten much of the benefits. Overall standard of living has gone up a whole lot since the old feudal/tribal/whatever days prior to capitalism becoming widespread. It's not like we have some tested alternative system waiting in the wings that's obviously going to work better for the majority of the world, much less everybody.
Well as said, that depends on how you define capitalism. It doesn't make it communist if it says CCCP on the side. Kind of silly how people in general play the CCCP or North Korea card right off the bat, when people in general identifying themselves as communists generally abhor the idea and do not consider them to be communist by any means, or live in some delusional reality where everything about these two is fabricated.

It's like you're defending some strange pseudoutilitarian theory where a group of 10 people get to keep a slave for capital gain if the slave actually gets something out of it aswell, regardless of his consent. I'm pretty sure the millions of massacred people in latin america or africa kind of disagree with your obscure view of "overall benefit", as do a fuckload of indigenous tribes who've been forcefully moved and/or murdered for some pasture land that belongs to micky D these days. The american view of personal freedom is of that, where you get to argue you do not have to pay for beneficial things to others, while constantly stripping others of their personal freedom (with the exception most aren't actually aware they're doing so, or actively promoting politicians/policies that do so).

Besides, when most people think of shitholes, Myanmar/Burma comes to mind. They're pretty good at for example, making palm oil through slave/child labor these days. This palm oil is bought by french, european, american and multinational companies with delight at the consent of their respective governments, and this money keeps the regime in place. I'd attribute much of the blame for their situation towards capitalism, I don't know about you though?
Quote:
Christians have their "Jesus will come back and fix the world," fruitbats like Patriotic Eagle have "someday a real Communist system (or whatever the fuck he calls his ideology) will get implemented." Seems like a fairy tale to me, I'm more interested in trying to see how to fix the problems in the overall productive system we have.
Well, worldwide capitalism kills/killed as much as "communism" did/does. I think it's kind of funny. I think it's a fairy tale that everyone can be rich
__________________
"dogs came to man to make friends and help us hunt and guard unlike pigs"
-lolergay
Old 03-11-2012, 03:59 AM Straw Man is offline  
Reply With Quote
#65  

Gibonius
 
I certainly didn't say it was perfect, I said it was better than any known alternative. "Real communism" has never shown up, any more than "Jesus running shit." Capitalism has taken us from a society of feudal warlords to being able to talk to other weird fuckers across the world from the comfort of our living rooms. Not everyone has benefited, maybe they can't all benefit (and certainly not to the same degree). But what other serious options do we have?
Old 03-11-2012, 08:26 AM Gibonius is offline  
Reply With Quote
#66  

TheMorlock
Contrary to my previous title I never fucked Inf's mother
 
TheMorlock's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RuHo View Post
"capitalism has worked very well until about now"
-some dude on the internet who forgets world history and the fact the majority of people in the world are dirt poor because of a capitalist system that seeks to exploit people for profit

Yeah because feudalism was oh so pro common citizen.

And of course capitalism goes back a couple thousand years BC with trade caravans. You know, where many people pool their money to buy into a trade venture to offset risk?

Triangle trade ring a bell dipshit?
__________________
There is nothing to worry about. Legions of wise people with nothing but all of best interests at heart are ensuring our future of love and infinite bliss. Go watch TV :Bflaps
http://www.genmay.com/showthread.php?t=572323
Old 03-11-2012, 08:33 AM TheMorlock is offline  
Reply With Quote
#67  

joemama
Watch Toomer burn those cowboys. How bout them cowboys?
 
joemama's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RuHo View Post

Well, worldwide capitalism kills/killed as much as "communism" did/does. I think it's kind of funny. I think it's a fairy tale that everyone can be rich
That's debateable, just like the definition of what true communism or capitalism means. What isn't debateable is that communism only works on a small scale (as in a "commune" with a couple hundred people) but even then it isn't perfect, and someone always ends up a little more "equal" than the others. The difference is that communism (as we know it) on a large scale tends to kill people directly either through starvation or the leaders trying to maintain control, and with capitalism it isn't "everyone can get rich"......but rather "anyone" can get rich. In other words the possibility exists for a person to come from a 3rd world shithole with nothing but the clothes on their back, and die with millions in the bank. The majority will never reach that level, but if the alternative is not even having that chance...which would you choose?
__________________
Rapid-fire double bass of the GenMay dru[M]mers collective

Syndrome of a Downs- drums/songwriter
._--_|\
/ииииииии\
\_.--Bumfuck Egypt
.......v
Old 03-11-2012, 08:37 AM joemama is offline  
Reply With Quote
#68  

Straw Man
RuHo
And my head I'd be scratchin' while my thoughts were busy hatchin; If I only had a brain......
 
Straw Man's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMorlock View Post
Yeah because feudalism was oh so pro common citizen.

And of course capitalism goes back a couple thousand years BC with trade caravans. You know, where many people pool their money to buy into a trade venture to offset risk?

Triangle trade ring a bell dipshit?
I don't think I said anything about feudalism but thanks for your generous input. Also, a hearty handshake for you in completely understanding the gist of it all, I bet you watched Pirates of the Caribbean just for that exotic overseas merchant trade tidbit you excreted here.

PS. At least in feudal times, people didn't have their cows pasture in africa so your fat ass keeps itself running on steaks and corn booze
__________________
"dogs came to man to make friends and help us hunt and guard unlike pigs"
-lolergay
Old 03-11-2012, 09:09 AM Straw Man is offline  
Reply With Quote
#69  

Straw Man
RuHo
And my head I'd be scratchin' while my thoughts were busy hatchin; If I only had a brain......
 
Straw Man's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
I certainly didn't say it was perfect, I said it was better than any known alternative. "Real communism" has never shown up, any more than "Jesus running shit." Capitalism has taken us from a society of feudal warlords to being able to talk to other weird fuckers across the world from the comfort of our living rooms. Not everyone has benefited, maybe they can't all benefit (and certainly not to the same degree). But what other serious options do we have?

So, capitalism IS colonialism/imperialism and you find this to be most utilitarian?
__________________
"dogs came to man to make friends and help us hunt and guard unlike pigs"
-lolergay
Old 03-11-2012, 09:10 AM Straw Man is offline  
Reply With Quote
#70  

Straw Man
RuHo
And my head I'd be scratchin' while my thoughts were busy hatchin; If I only had a brain......
 
Straw Man's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama View Post
That's debateable, just like the definition of what true communism or capitalism means.
people like you have no problem citing the black book of communism when it fits you and what you want to label as communist, but when it comes to european imperialism and american imperialism, suddenly the terminology gets a bit shady and the figures aren't what they should be...

Quote:
What isn't debateable is that communism only works on a small scale (as in a "commune" with a couple hundred people) but even then it isn't perfect, and someone always ends up a little more "equal" than the others.
feel free to explain this one, I bet you can't (other than some banter about "human nature" or something else equally silly).
Quote:
The difference is that communism (as we know it) on a large scale tends to kill people directly either through starvation or the leaders trying to maintain control, and with capitalism it isn't "everyone can get rich"......but rather "anyone" can get rich. In other words the possibility exists for a person to come from a 3rd world shithole with nothing but the clothes on their back, and die with millions in the bank. The majority will never reach that level, but if the alternative is not even having that chance...which would you choose?
That's dumb. Just plain dumb.
"Oh, your ancestors were enslaved and now you're starving because the patch of land in buttfuck africa that you owned is used to keep westeners fat? I guess "anyone can get rich but you didn't make it, but think of it the other way around, someone really might be lucky"
__________________
"dogs came to man to make friends and help us hunt and guard unlike pigs"
-lolergay
Old 03-11-2012, 09:18 AM Straw Man is offline  
Reply With Quote
#71  

5ive
 
5ive's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
Capitalism has taken us from a society of feudal warlords to being able to talk to other weird fuckers across the world from the comfort of our living rooms. Not everyone has benefited, maybe they can't all benefit (and certainly not to the same degree). But what other serious options do we have?

Marx never said capitalism didn't have its benefits. In fact, I'm pretty sure he said that capitalism did a p good job of improving production, living standards, etc etc. But he also decided it was time to move on to a more equitable and human system (this is my very basic interpretation)
__________________
Chicho is full of win.
Member #5 of the Romeoz God R.I.P Collective
Old 03-11-2012, 11:40 AM 5ive is offline  
Reply With Quote
#72  

TheMorlock
Contrary to my previous title I never fucked Inf's mother
 
TheMorlock's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RuHo View Post
I don't think I said anything about feudalism but thanks for your generous input. Also, a hearty handshake for you in completely understanding the gist of it all, I bet you watched Pirates of the Caribbean just for that exotic overseas merchant trade tidbit you excreted here.

PS. At least in feudal times, people didn't have their cows pasture in africa so your fat ass keeps itself running on steaks and corn booze

The dipshit factor is strong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama View Post
What isn't debateable is that communism only works on a small scale (as in a "commune" with a couple hundred people) but even then it isn't perfect, and someone always ends up a little more "equal" than the others.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RuHo View Post
feel free to explain this one, I bet you can't (other than some banter about "human nature" or something else equally silly).


Are you fucking kidding? It's straight out of the social sciences. Human beings can relate directly and give a shit about only so many people. For the really highly social people they can relate to about 30 people max. Most cant get over 10, and your aspie ass probably cant even relate well to one. With no direct sympathy for more than that most "Everybody Is Totaly Equal and deserve the Same Exact Slice of The Pie" systems break down starting at 50 people Anyone outside your immediate circle of friends is considered OTHER and others just dont deserve as much as they are getting so we will just take that tiny bit more than we let them have.

Your dipshit factor is off the charts.
__________________
There is nothing to worry about. Legions of wise people with nothing but all of best interests at heart are ensuring our future of love and infinite bliss. Go watch TV :Bflaps
http://www.genmay.com/showthread.php?t=572323

Last edited by TheMorlock; 03-11-2012 at 12:02 PM..
Old 03-11-2012, 11:44 AM TheMorlock is offline  
Reply With Quote
#73  

5ive
 
5ive's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama View Post
That's debateable, just like the definition of what true communism or capitalism means. What isn't debateable is that communism only works on a small scale (as in a "commune" with a couple hundred people) but even then it isn't perfect, and someone always ends up a little more "equal" than the others. The difference is that communism (as we know it) on a large scale tends to kill people directly either through starvation or the leaders trying to maintain control, and with capitalism it isn't "everyone can get rich"......but rather "anyone" can get rich. In other words the possibility exists for a person to come from a 3rd world shithole with nothing but the clothes on their back, and die with millions in the bank. The majority will never reach that level, but if the alternative is not even having that chance...which would you choose?

Read King Leopold's Ghost to learn about Belgium's involvement in the Congo. Roughly 10 million people died. I'm pretty sure you can attribute roughly the same if not more deaths to capitalism than communism.

Not saying that communism is superior or anything, but there is plenty of blood on the hands of capitalists
__________________
Chicho is full of win.
Member #5 of the Romeoz God R.I.P Collective
Old 03-11-2012, 11:45 AM 5ive is offline  
Reply With Quote
#74  

joemama
Watch Toomer burn those cowboys. How bout them cowboys?
 
joemama's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RuHo View Post
people like you have no problem citing the black book of communism when it fits you and what you want to label as communist, but when it comes to european imperialism and american imperialism, suddenly the terminology gets a bit shady and the figures aren't what they should be...

feel free to explain this one, I bet you can't (other than some banter about "human nature" or something else equally silly).

That's dumb. Just plain dumb.
"Oh, your ancestors were enslaved and now you're starving because the patch of land in buttfuck africa that you owned is used to keep westeners fat? I guess "anyone can get rich but you didn't make it, but think of it the other way around, someone really might be lucky"
You can discount human nature all you want, but people who don't have blinders on know that it really has an effect on society no matter what system is in use....and other than some dictatorships, there is no purely evil form of government, as well as none that are purely benevolent to all people. Since you seem to know so much about it...how would you define communism?

Also, what is dumb about what I said? My earliest ancestor in the new world (pre-revolution) was a lowly Irish deckhand on a merchant ship...and my mom's side also Irish and fleeing the potato famine (British) in the 19th century. Neither side came over with wealth or status.....yet today the families are full of doctors, lawyers, CPA's, small business owners and others that make a comfortable living and now have a bit of status in their communities. Do you think if my ancestors could see what they started they would think that coming to the new world (with opportunities they didn't have at home) was a "dumb" idea? Capitalism is far from a perfect system, but it DOES create opportunities for those that really want it..
__________________
Rapid-fire double bass of the GenMay dru[M]mers collective

Syndrome of a Downs- drums/songwriter
._--_|\
/ииииииии\
\_.--Bumfuck Egypt
.......v
Old 03-11-2012, 11:45 AM joemama is offline  
Reply With Quote
#75  

Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:03 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.