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joemama
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Originally Posted by [H]ard|On View Post
I agree, it should be a plan available to all and used by all. This will keep the system at least somewhat honest.

The biggest selling point for single-payer in my eyes is the government can't fuck it up worse than the HMOs did, corruption and embezzling or not. Premiums are very high, benefits are being denied at every turn - we got nothing to lose and everything to gain in this area.
We may have something to gain, but there could also be losses. Especially for people who currently have good, inexpensive healhcare coverage through their job. If wait times for appointments become longer, doctors have more patients and less time to deal with each....or heaven forbid a doctor shortage because many of them can't recover the money they spent on med school in at least 10 years.....yeah, that's a loss. Also, if you think prescription drugs are expensive now because of insurance companies...just wait until they dig into government coffers. (just look at what any contractor bills the government versus what they would charge to non-government individuals/companies)
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Old 03-07-2012, 07:58 PM joemama is offline  
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Straw Man
RuHo
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Originally Posted by Coqui View Post
I'm not after anything. Simply pointing out things.

Well not really picking a fight, I just don't see how that is relevant towards anything since uhhh, everything is larger in america (*)



(*)except pen0rs
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:09 PM Straw Man is offline  
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Straw Man
RuHo
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I could of been lazy and taken the easy route. There were plenty of times in my life that I could of given up and said fuck it, let the gov take care of me, yet I didn't. I took the hard road and worked my ass off to get where I am.

Property rights is not the same as healthcare. Property is a physical thing, where as the health of someone is based on the situation of that person, who can change many things about them, to improve or reduce their health. Land is land, it won't change unless there is a natural disaster. You can't sell your health, your health is not the same thing as property. Property can be sold and traded, and used as a resource. Health of a person is not valued at anything, it is the labor that that person produces that is what is valued.

By your definition, a person with perfect health, who does nothing their entire life, is valued higher then a person of poor health who works everyday.

so much moron in this post(er)

dude starts with the toil of the suburbian white guy syndrome who "worked his way up", proceeds to argue 17th century property nonsense like a cognitively challenged paulite. Good work
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:13 PM Straw Man is offline  
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Straw Man
RuHo
And my head I'd be scratchin' while my thoughts were busy hatchin; If I only had a brain......
 
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Originally Posted by joemama View Post
We may have something to gain, but there could also be losses. Especially for people who currently have good, inexpensive healhcare coverage through their job. If wait times for appointments become longer, doctors have more patients and less time to deal with each....or heaven forbid a doctor shortage because many of them can't recover the money they spent on med school in at least 10 years.....yeah, that's a loss. Also, if you think prescription drugs are expensive now because of insurance companies...just wait until they dig into government coffers. (just look at what any contractor bills the government versus what they would charge to non-government individuals/companies)

The doctor salary and student loan part makes me giggle. Won't someone think of the poor doctors...
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:15 PM Straw Man is offline  
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topcat989
 
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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/op...stof.html?_r=3




You are absolutely right, Liberals should give more. We are just too damn busy paying for all those red states...



GET A JOB YOU LAZY BUMS. STOP TAKING OUR HANDOUTS! YOU'VE CREATED A CULTURE OF ENTITLEMENT!!!1

:coolface:

A little intellectually dishonest there. Do you mean to say that there are no dems/liberals/welfare monkeys in red states? That only republicans populate red states, and therefore all the money that goes to a red state, NONE of it is spent on/for "blue" citizens (and illegals) ?
Old 03-07-2012, 09:32 PM topcat989 is offline  
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We may have something to gain, but there could also be losses. Especially for people who currently have good, inexpensive healhcare coverage through their job. If wait times for appointments become longer, doctors have more patients and less time to deal with each....or heaven forbid a doctor shortage because many of them can't recover the money they spent on med school in at least 10 years.....yeah, that's a loss. Also, if you think prescription drugs are expensive now because of insurance companies...just wait until they dig into government coffers. (just look at what any contractor bills the government versus what they would charge to non-government individuals/companies)

Dual-tier single payer ftw.
Old 03-08-2012, 12:54 AM Gibonius is offline  
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Straw Man
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A little intellectually dishonest there. Do you mean to say that there are no dems/liberals/welfare monkeys in red states? That only republicans populate red states, and therefore all the money that goes to a red state, NONE of it is spent on/for "blue" citizens (and illegals) ?

I guess you just owned up to a whole life's worth of intellectual dishonesty (*) with your every day categorization of "liberals" and "illegals".


(*)that's kind of a misnomer since it suggests you're actually possess intellect, which isn't really true
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Old 03-08-2012, 02:10 AM Straw Man is offline  
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[H]ard|On
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama View Post
We may have something to gain, but there could also be losses. Especially for people who currently have good, inexpensive healhcare coverage through their job. If wait times for appointments become longer, doctors have more patients and less time to deal with each....or heaven forbid a doctor shortage because many of them can't recover the money they spent on med school in at least 10 years.....yeah, that's a loss. Also, if you think prescription drugs are expensive now because of insurance companies...just wait until they dig into government coffers. (just look at what any contractor bills the government versus what they would charge to non-government individuals/companies)

If more doctors are needed that means there will be more of them.. more nurses.. more jobs. Shouldn't be a problem so long as people keep fucking.

I do think doctors get paid a little on the fat side for fairly little effort after they graduate - and their tuition costs are out of this universe beyond unreasonable. It would be nice to get tuition to cost less all around - I'm glad I went the state school route.

I'm a "cougar".. lol

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Old 03-08-2012, 02:23 AM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Well not really picking a fight, I just don't see how that is relevant towards anything since uhhh, everything is larger in america (*)



(*)except pen0rs

Legislating for a larger population.
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:28 AM Coqui is offline  
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joemama
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Legislating for a larger population.
Not just a larger population, but one of the most diverse ethnically/culturally as well. What works for a small Island that is mostly homogenous and hive minded (Taiwan) may not translate exactly when brought to the U.S.

All I'm saying is that we should tread carefully before making sweeping changes and diving head first into socialized health care..
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:59 AM joemama is offline  
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What does race have to do with it? How will diversity make it more difficult?
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Last edited by 5ive; 03-08-2012 at 07:25 AM..
Old 03-08-2012, 07:17 AM 5ive is offline  
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edit: nevermind
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Old 03-08-2012, 07:21 AM 5ive is offline  
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Jack's raging erection
 
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I'm just going to put this in here. Not that it's part of the argument, I just thought it was pretty cool.

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:38 PM Jack's raging erection is offline  
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edplayer
no
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [H]ard|On View Post

The Mandate

In essence most people agree the things it offers are good regulation for the industry, but there is a lot of debate on the mandate alone. It forces people to obtain private health insurance or pay a certain amount of extra taxes. The idea is to emphasize the importance of coverage. If more healthy people get insured this will drive down premiums for all and because ideally everyone should have health insurance this is supposed to be a step in the right direction.


good subject. We needed something fresh for this sub-forum

So I haven't read your 1st link yet but promise I will. My question:

You say that if more healthy people get insured it will drive down premiums for all. Can you explain how this will happen? As in how is it that premiums will go down? And why would more people getting insurance lead one to believe that a majority of those are healthy? Or what reasoning leads one to think that with a larger pool of insured people there will be a shift towards the people being healthy or whatever supports the last sentence. And how do you define healthy?


If this was already covered in your first link feel free to call me an idiot.
Old 03-08-2012, 10:58 PM edplayer is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Originally Posted by Vote McCain! View Post
You're splitting hairs here; the government (regardless of whether local, state, or federal) is forcing you to buy car insurance. This is a good thing for the reasons i listed in my previous post.



talk about splitting hairs......



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_Acts_of_1792



If you get in a car accident on monday, and get your fat-ass doctors bill on tuesday, and then go buy insurance on wednesday, what makes you think they are going to pay for anything that happened on monday (while you weren't insured)?


Talking out your ass on the internet much?

If you dont own and drive a car you dont have to buy car insurance. Even if you own and drive a car you may not have to buy car insurance. I dont know if all states allow it but some let you instead keep the minimum liability coverage funds in a special escrow account.

Unless the law has changed NY is one such state.

In any case the federal government once again using the commerce clause to exercise power over citizens it has not been granted is not the same as the state making you buy liability insurance for the privilege of using the road system.


Nice try though.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:51 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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