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Coqui
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edplayer View Post
good subject. We needed something fresh for this sub-forum

So I haven't read your 1st link yet but promise I will. My question:

You say that if more healthy people get insured it will drive down premiums for all. Can you explain how this will happen? As in how is it that premiums will go down? And why would more people getting insurance lead one to believe that a majority of those are healthy? Or what reasoning leads one to think that with a larger pool of insured people there will be a shift towards the people being healthy or whatever supports the last sentence. And how do you define healthy?


If this was already covered in your first link feel free to call me an idiot.

This is all in theory but I'm pretty sure a lot of healthy people aren't on health insurance because they feel they don't need it. Being mandated to be on insurance increases the amount of money coming to those who insure. More money means the insurers need less money to pay for the sick. Thus they don't have to raise premiums to cover their expenses and since they will be making more profit as a direct result, they can lower premiums to get more clients due to competetive pricing.

Healthy would be not having to go to the doctor for anything.
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Old 03-09-2012, 05:00 AM Coqui is offline  
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[H]ard|On
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edplayer View Post
good subject. We needed something fresh for this sub-forum

So I haven't read your 1st link yet but promise I will. My question:

You say that if more healthy people get insured it will drive down premiums for all. Can you explain how this will happen? As in how is it that premiums will go down? And why would more people getting insurance lead one to believe that a majority of those are healthy? Or what reasoning leads one to think that with a larger pool of insured people there will be a shift towards the people being healthy or whatever supports the last sentence. And how do you define healthy?


If this was already covered in your first link feel free to call me an idiot.


Basically an insurance company operates like this

-Collect premiums into bank account
-Pay claims out of bank account

Whatever is the difference, the company keeps. The premiums are obviously adjusted to cover all the expenditures PLUS whatever the company deems necessary as profit (a fairly brave amount). With more payments (sheer numbers of people) and less claims in proportion to it (healthy patients) the company can still earn their profits, cover all their expenditures AND drop each individual payment some amount. That is unless they get greedy which is likely, but Obama care has stipulations about how much of your payment must be used to pay out for care as a percentage (>83% iirc?). Plus like car insurance, they will try and steal clients from each other with lower rates. Having more people signed up will allow them to do this more.

This concept would work doubly well with a national healthcare program where a large chunk of profits can be eliminated and passed on to us as savings. Without it the mandate is only half of the one-two combo, but like most people say "it's better than nothing" and every journey starts with the first step.

Ps. healthy meaning younger people like us, not necessarily at risk for anything.
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Old 03-09-2012, 06:16 AM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Vote McCain!
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Talking out your ass on the internet much?

isn't that what you do all fucking day?
Old 03-09-2012, 12:28 PM Vote McCain! is offline  
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A little intellectually dishonest there. Do you mean to say that there are no dems/liberals/welfare monkeys in red states? That only republicans populate red states, and therefore all the money that goes to a red state, NONE of it is spent on/for "blue" citizens (and illegals) ?

My first (and foremost) thought to that Bullshit as well.

In Texas, we are completely, totally, red state. We also have more liberal spics and niggra's than just about anywhere else. What, are they voting republican? These "stats" are a side product not taking into account other major facts from states. Therefore, this is no proof, it is no valid argument. The number of people who don't vote is astounding - the fact that republicans or liberals are more passionate and form up groups to emphasize their side to vote, doesn't equate to anything.


And no, the New York Times are NOT a valid source You can't be serious?
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Old 03-09-2012, 01:50 PM s0me0nesmind1 is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coqui View Post
This is all in theory but I'm pretty sure a lot of healthy people aren't on health insurance because they feel they don't need it. Being mandated to be on insurance increases the amount of money coming to those who insure. More money means the insurers need less money to pay for the sick. Thus they don't have to raise premiums to cover their expenses and since they will be making more profit as a direct result, they can lower premiums to get more clients due to competetive pricing.

Healthy would be not having to go to the doctor for anything.

I would bet my savings that you are completely, utterly, wrong. People that are UNhealthy are the ones who assume they don't need insurance. Hence, why they are there. It's stupid. Utterly stupid. Healthy people are the ones who have their annual check-ups from doctors, dentists, etc.. etc.. Including girls going to a gyno or some shit. It's the fat ass unhealthy fucks who don't ever go until they fall over.

Forcing health insurance isn't going to get the fat niggras and retarded hicks anymore likely to go to the doctor on a regular basis to improve their chances in life. They won't, in fact. I can call it already on the emphasis of how fucking retarded this country is.

So how in fact will this help the country? Sure, it makes them pay for something they don't use - and that's fine. But I guaran-fucking-tee my insurance rates aren't going down in spite of it. Furthermore, it won't help our countries image, it won't bring our average age of death up, and it won't make anyone more likely to get their fat ass up. This is a failure on many many assumptions.
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Old 03-09-2012, 01:55 PM s0me0nesmind1 is offline  
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TheMorlock
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isn't that what you do all fucking day?

nice refutation. Learn that on debate team?
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Old 03-09-2012, 02:01 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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I would bet my savings that you are completely, utterly, wrong. People that are UNhealthy are the ones who assume they don't need insurance. Hence, why they are there. It's stupid. Utterly stupid. Healthy people are the ones who have their annual check-ups from doctors, dentists, etc.. etc.. Including girls going to a gyno or some shit. It's the fat ass unhealthy fucks who don't ever go until they fall over.
Every single person with a pre-existing condition wants to have insurance, because it's the only way to reasonably pay for care in our stupid fucking system.
Old 03-09-2012, 02:11 PM Gibonius is offline  
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edplayer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coqui View Post
This is all in theory but I'm pretty sure a lot of healthy people aren't on health insurance because they feel they don't need it. Being mandated to be on insurance increases the amount of money coming to those who insure. More money means the insurers need less money to pay for the sick. Thus they don't have to raise premiums to cover their expenses and since they will be making more profit as a direct result, they can lower premiums to get more clients due to competetive pricing.

Healthy would be not having to go to the doctor for anything.


K thanks. So I understand that bringing more healthy people in would mean that less in total that would be paid out for healthcare per person but is there anything within the law that states that only a certain amount of profit can be made?

I mean what is there to ensure that premiums would go down from bringing in more healthy people? And if there is anything to mandate only a certain amount of profit wouldn't it be fairly easy to come up with ways around it?

I understand how if the revenues brought in are greater one could argue that premiums should be lowered to attract more customers away from high priced programs but since everyone will be required to get insurance do you think this is likely. Could you see that premiums might even go up?

When I think of health insurance I don't think of it as something to make people healthy. I think of it as something to make money.
Old 03-09-2012, 03:12 PM edplayer is offline  
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edplayer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [H]ard|On View Post
Basically an insurance company operates like this

-Collect premiums into bank account
-Pay claims out of bank account

Whatever is the difference, the company keeps. The premiums are obviously adjusted to cover all the expenditures PLUS whatever the company deems necessary as profit (a fairly brave amount). With more payments (sheer numbers of people) and less claims in proportion to it (healthy patients) the company can still earn their profits, cover all their expenditures AND drop each individual payment some amount. That is unless they get greedy which is likely, but Obama care has stipulations about how much of your payment must be used to pay out for care as a percentage (>83% iirc?). Plus like car insurance, they will try and steal clients from each other with lower rates. Having more people signed up will allow them to do this more.

This concept would work doubly well with a national healthcare program where a large chunk of profits can be eliminated and passed on to us as savings. Without it the mandate is only half of the one-two combo, but like most people say "it's better than nothing" and every journey starts with the first step.

Ps. healthy meaning younger people like us, not necessarily at risk for anything.


K thanks. I didn't know that there are stipulations that said a certain amount of premiums collected must be paid out. Is it possible for insurance companies to also own hospitals? Because if that is allowed wouldn't it make sense to recommend your hospitals to the people buying coverage and then raise the prices the hospitals charge?

That way you meet the requirement of % payout yet still make more money (thus not have to lower premiums).
Old 03-09-2012, 03:16 PM edplayer is offline  
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Coqui
 
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K thanks. So I understand that bringing more healthy people in would mean that less in total that would be paid out for healthcare per person but is there anything within the law that states that only a certain amount of profit can be made?

No but competing against other insurance companies would keep their pricing down (again in theory) of course it could be like the gas companies where they all just jack up the prices regardless
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Old 03-09-2012, 04:52 PM Coqui is offline  
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5ive
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s0me0nesmind1 View Post
I would bet my savings that you are completely, utterly, wrong. People that are UNhealthy are the ones who assume they don't need insurance. Hence, why they are there. It's stupid. Utterly stupid. Healthy people are the ones who have their annual check-ups from doctors, dentists, etc.. etc.. Including girls going to a gyno or some shit. It's the fat ass unhealthy fucks who don't ever go until they fall over.

Forcing health insurance isn't going to get the fat niggras and retarded hicks anymore likely to go to the doctor on a regular basis to improve their chances in life. They won't, in fact. I can call it already on the emphasis of how fucking retarded this country is.

So how in fact will this help the country? Sure, it makes them pay for something they don't use - and that's fine. But I guaran-fucking-tee my insurance rates aren't going down in spite of it. Furthermore, it won't help our countries image, it won't bring our average age of death up, and it won't make anyone more likely to get their fat ass up. This is a failure on many many assumptions.

The vast majority of uninsured can't afford it, and if they had access to it then we'd have an overall healthier and longer-living (at least for disadvantaged populations) workforce. And it would improve our country's image. Literally no industrialized country thinks our health care system is enviable. Seriously, they actually worry about America's state of affairs, and in some ways it's difficult to call us first world. If anything, massive social reform would improve our image abroad
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Last edited by 5ive; 03-09-2012 at 05:03 PM..
Old 03-09-2012, 04:57 PM 5ive is offline  
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TheMorlock
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yeah they dont think our health care system is enviable but if they want to live and have the cash, here is where they come to get treatment.
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Old 03-09-2012, 05:19 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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5ive
 
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Well as long as rich people are happy...
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Old 03-09-2012, 05:27 PM 5ive is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Well as long as rich people are happy...

yeah, rich politicians from other countries who think so highly of their health care system that they flee it to come here.
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Old 03-09-2012, 06:30 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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yeah, rich politicians from other countries who think so highly of their health care system that they flee it to come here.

Yeah, because they are rich. They can afford the very best. You can't. You don't get what they get just because you live here. That's like looking at footage of Saddam's palaces and saying "The Iraqi people live pretty lavishly."

And the idea that USA USA USA is the only place that rich people go to for ultra-high end health care is also stupid. We aren't the only place on earth which offers high end for profit health services. Many of our wealthy elites go elsewhere for specialized care. That's what rich people do, because they are rich.

And on the other end of the spectrum it is becoming increasingly popular for non-rich americans to go to other countries where they can get equal care to the united states for a fraction of the price.

google: medical tourism.
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