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Gibonius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by topcat989 View Post
you ever hear the phrase "Nickel and dimed to death"?

Same concept. Yeah it would be a waste of time to only talk about a nickel to the exclusion of larger budget issues, but it would be just as asinine to never talk about/deal with the "nickels" because they eventually add up to a shitload of money that could have/should have gone to better use. And that's a worthy issue of debate.

It's worth talking about, but it's not worth the extremely large amount of attention that it's gotten for 30+ years now.

For all the talk of entitlements and welfare spending, we have two parties that adamantly refuse to talk about seriously cutting military spending. Simply maintaining spending, instead of raising it, gets you called a commie pinko liberal socialist traitor. It's ridiculous, even people in the Pentagon are saying they don't need more money.
Old 04-15-2012, 01:58 PM Gibonius is offline  
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[H]ard|On
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topcat989 View Post
you ever hear the phrase "Nickel and dimed to death"?

Same concept. Yeah it would be a waste of time to only talk about a nickel to the exclusion of larger budget issues, but it would be just as asinine to never talk about/deal with the "nickels" because they eventually add up to a shitload of money that could have/should have gone to better use. And that's a worthy issue of debate.

You can get nickle and dimed to death a lot faster then they are billion dollar bills.

War budget: 700 billion.


This is what we earn:




This is what we spend


Solution to bring the two closer:

-Decrease war budget. Obvious, pointless waste of money and lives.
-Increase taxes, especially corporate (GE paid 0 in taxes last year )
-Start taxing imported shit from China/Etc 15-25%. This will remove incentive to move manufacturing abroad AND increase income.

VOILA


If we add population control to this whole thing we are even better off. Look how much money is spent on taking care of old people (SSI, Medicare) Considering we reproduce exponentially WTF are we going to do in a decade?
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Old 04-15-2012, 05:57 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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TheMorlock
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yes lets start an international trade/tariff war and just throw all those treaties away.
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Old 04-15-2012, 06:09 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [H]ard|On View Post


If we add population control to this whole thing we are even better off. Look how much money is spent on taking care of old people (SSI, Medicare) Considering we reproduce exponentially WTF are we going to do in a decade?

You need population growth to maintain these social programs dummy. More people entering workforce = more money.
Old 04-15-2012, 09:31 PM astriy is offline  
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Why the fuck do you want to control the population, HardOn? Our population growth is leveling off and will continue on that path, just like the rest of the Western World.
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Old 04-15-2012, 09:37 PM 5ive is offline  
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he's thinking we're going to be China with all those new factory jobs his tariff hike will no doubt bring.
Old 04-15-2012, 09:44 PM astriy is offline  
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Why is it going to level off? It's not really leveling off. We don't have to be too aggressive just change the public perception and see if it works. Make a diminishing returns schedule for child subsidies so people stop having bonus multipliers for having 8 versions of themselves. That's not contributing anything, that's irresponsible.

Because yes eventually it WILL start to level off rapidly, as we find our hard resource limit. That's called mass food and energy shortages and things of that nature. I don't want to go there - this is why i want to control the population.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:55 AM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMorlock View Post
yes lets start an international trade/tariff war and just throw all those treaties away.

Yes lets.


...






Shouldn't you bring up a downside? We don't export jack shit to china. What are they going to do?


Quote:
Originally Posted by astriy View Post
You need population growth to maintain these social programs dummy. More people entering workforce = more money.

The fact that some of these things you're talking about are pyramid schemes doesn't mean we need more people, it means we need better programs
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:56 AM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Quote:
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Start improving education

union is too strong
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:01 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [H]ard|On View Post

The fact that some of these things you're talking about are pyramid schemes doesn't mean we need more people, it means we need better programs

ok genius, what better program can you come up with?

As it stands right now, our system is designed with assumed population growth. We have plenty of land and food production capacity to sustain a much larger population. We would need to radically reform our social systems if you institute any sort of population control. Not to mention that it would be pretty much impossible to institute politically. It's a stupid idea and it would never work.
Old 04-17-2012, 07:16 AM astriy is offline  
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Gibonius
 
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ok genius, what better program can you come up with?

As it stands right now, our system is designed with assumed population growth. We have plenty of land and food production capacity to sustain a much larger population. We would need to radically reform our social systems if you institute any sort of population control. Not to mention that it would be pretty much impossible to institute politically. It's a stupid idea and it would never work.

If you just look at natural population growth and exclude immigration, the US is growing at right about the replacement value. If you exclude the higher fertility recent immigrants, we'd pretty much be holding steady and that's it. These social systems that require continuous growth are going to become troublesome very soon.

That's probably a good thing, the continuous growth model is worrisome, including the economic implications. We need to grow our economy fast enough to provide new (decent) jobs for all new entrants to the workforce, something we have not been doing recently.
Old 04-17-2012, 08:09 AM Gibonius is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
If you just look at natural population growth and exclude immigration, the US is growing at right about the replacement value. If you exclude the higher fertility recent immigrants, we'd pretty much be holding steady and that's it. These social systems that require continuous growth are going to become troublesome very soon.

That's probably a good thing, the continuous growth model is worrisome, including the economic implications. We need to grow our economy fast enough to provide new (decent) jobs for all new entrants to the workforce, something we have not been doing recently.

The economy is growing. However, all the growth is going to the top 1% of the population, and everyone else is getting fucked up the ass.
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Old 04-17-2012, 09:28 AM :ninja: is offline  
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Gibonius
 
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The economy is growing. However, all the growth is going to the top 1% of the population, and everyone else is getting fucked up the ass.

Well there's that too. As a general matter, I think people would be more tolerant of the ass-fucking if they could at least find half-decent jobs.
Old 04-17-2012, 12:21 PM Gibonius is offline  
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A good fix would be removing the maximum taxable income for social security and integrating it into the regular tax rate.
Old 04-17-2012, 01:52 PM astriy is offline  
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The economy is "growing" because we have doubled our nations debt. Yeah, you can turn it around all you want as long as you keep sucking China's tits. The question is that is it going to do a full 180 where we no longer need to rely on increasing the debt and live on our own. And given that we took way too long and have way too much to do, that isn't happening in my point of view.
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:53 PM s0me0nesmind1 is offline  
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