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[H]ard|On
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Originally Posted by astriy View Post
ok genius, what better program can you come up with?

As it stands right now, our system is designed with assumed population growth. We have plenty of land and food production capacity to sustain a much larger population. We would need to radically reform our social systems if you institute any sort of population control. Not to mention that it would be pretty much impossible to institute politically. It's a stupid idea and it would never work.

It already exists and works. Just not here. Yet. Yes politically it might be a hard sell but so was abolishing slavery. So are abortions. Making people pass smog and pay income taxes weren't easy to swallow. Who cares, doesn't mean it's not worth exploring.

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Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
If you just look at natural population growth and exclude immigration, the US is growing at right about the replacement value. If you exclude the higher fertility recent immigrants, we'd pretty much be holding steady and that's it. These social systems that require continuous growth are going to become troublesome very soon.

That's probably a good thing, the continuous growth model is worrisome, including the economic implications. We need to grow our economy fast enough to provide new (decent) jobs for all new entrants to the workforce, something we have not been doing recently.

Eh.. for every person that dies three more are born is what it was the last time I heard anything on TV. Let's use links and numbers.... I don't believe we're "holding steady" - immigrants aside - at the replacement rate. Where did you see that?
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Old 04-18-2012, 12:04 AM [H]ard|On is offline  
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astriy
 
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Originally Posted by [H]ard|On View Post
It already exists and works. Just not here. Yet. Yes politically it might be a hard sell but so was abolishing slavery. So are abortions. Making people pass smog and pay income taxes weren't easy to swallow. Who cares, doesn't mean it's not worth exploring.

soooo, you want us to become communist China? no thanks
Old 04-18-2012, 06:19 AM astriy is offline  
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Eh.. for every person that dies three more are born is what it was the last time I heard anything on TV. Let's use links and numbers.... I don't believe we're "holding steady" - immigrants aside - at the replacement rate. Where did you see that?

Population growth rate for the US is ~0.9%. Makes for a total fertility rate of 2.09, which is actually below the natural replacement value.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...elds/2002.html
http://www.cia.gov/library/publicati.../2127rank.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-rep...#United_States
Old 04-18-2012, 06:38 AM Gibonius is offline  
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[H]ard|On
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soooo, you want us to become communist China? no thanks

You have the reasoning ability of a pigeon.

I'm for diminished returns on federal child support, yes. Construe that however you want.

For example, you are allowed to own land only IF you can afford it. Why should having kids be any different?
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Last edited by [H]ard|On; 04-18-2012 at 07:25 AM..
Old 04-18-2012, 07:19 AM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
Population growth rate for the US is ~0.9%. Makes for a total fertility rate of 2.09, which is actually below the natural replacement value.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...elds/2002.html
http://www.cia.gov/library/publicati.../2127rank.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-rep...#United_States

Nothing wrong with shrinking back a little either.... That's comforting though. I've read estimates of about 13-14 billion on earth as our comfortable "ceiling" before we have to start fighting each other for food.
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:24 AM [H]ard|On is offline  
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You have the reasoning ability of a pigeon.

I'm for diminished returns on federal child support, yes. Construe that however you want.

For example, you are allowed to own land only IF you can afford it. Why should having kids be any different?

We already do this so I'm not sure what your issue here is. You don't get unlimited tax credits for more kids. Tops out at three if I remember the Earned Income Tax Credit form correctly.
Old 04-18-2012, 09:26 AM Gibonius is offline  
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Not credit I mean straight up checks. It's called "cash aid" and qualifying families get it based on number of kids they have and their income.
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Old 04-18-2012, 10:36 AM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Why is it going to level off? It's not really leveling off. We don't have to be too aggressive just change the public perception and see if it works. Make a diminishing returns schedule for child subsidies so people stop having bonus multipliers for having 8 versions of themselves. That's not contributing anything, that's irresponsible.

Because yes eventually it WILL start to level off rapidly, as we find our hard resource limit. That's called mass food and energy shortages and things of that nature. I don't want to go there - this is why i want to control the population.
When you start talking population control you can't point the finger at the U.S./Europe. Are you willing to risk *GASP* being called a racist?
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Old 04-18-2012, 10:43 AM joemama is offline  
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When you start talking population control you can't point the finger at the U.S./Europe. Are you willing to risk *GASP* being called a racist?

I prefer "idealist"
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Old 04-18-2012, 10:51 AM [H]ard|On is offline  
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I prefer "idealist"
A lot of people like to talk about impending food, water and energy shortages in the next 30 years or so....but those same people seem to be a afraid to address the root cause.
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:05 AM joemama is offline  
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[H]ard|On
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We need to hurry up and relive the glory days of slavery but this time with robots.

I want to sit back and have them fetch me lemonade...
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:15 AM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Not credit I mean straight up checks. It's called "cash aid" and qualifying families get it based on number of kids they have and their income.

Where exactly are you getting this idea that there are unlimited federal payments with increasing numbers of kids? There are some short-term benefit programs that scale to an unlimited number of children, but I can't find any perpetual welfare programs at the federal level that would financially reward you for having kids beyond a certain point.


Also a tax credit is a straight up check.

Last edited by Gibonius; 04-18-2012 at 02:13 PM..
Old 04-18-2012, 02:08 PM Gibonius is offline  
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Vendetta
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Old 04-18-2012, 04:49 PM Vendetta is offline  
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To put it another way, only 2.6 percent of applicants tested positive for illegal drugs — a rate more than three times lower than the 8.13 percent of all Floridians, age 12 and up, estimated by the federal government to use illegaldrugs
So... theyre catching a full third of drug users for the entire state, both not on welfare and on welfare? that sounds pretty good to me
Old 04-18-2012, 04:58 PM Forever Domon is offline  
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So... theyre catching a full third of drug users for the entire state, both not on welfare and on welfare? that sounds pretty good to me

what? if im understanding you correctly....no. the rate might be 1/3 of the all-florida rate but the actual counts are not. 2.6% of 4086 people on assistance is 108. compared to 8.3 percent of all Floridians aged 12 and older, well...
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