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Gibonius
 
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Originally Posted by joemama View Post
My point is that if you acknowledge that things were worse in the early 80's than today (and give Obama credit for that) then you at least have to give partial credit to Reagan for pulling us out back then.
I don't think people are trying to take anything away from Reagan. What he did worked for that recession. People are questioning A) the dogma from the Republicans about what Reagan actually did and B) the application of "Reaganomics" to today.

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But I agree with what you said earlier about the President having influence, but not absolute control of the economy. However the liberal mindset seems to be the President takes full credit for good/bad (or just bad if they're anything but Democrat)
I think that's just a "politics" mindset, not liberal or conservative.
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and can single handedly start wars.
That's not entirely untrue. The US hasn't declared war since 1942 but we've fought in quite a number of conflicts.
Old 06-02-2012, 09:19 AM Gibonius is offline  
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Gibonius
 
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Actually, the DOW Dropping had all to do with the jobs report that released But nice try cock gobbler.

Sigh.

And I'm sure the jobs report had nothing to do with world economic conditions. Nothing at all.

Also the stock market is inherently irrational and not any kind of true indication of economic health.
Old 06-02-2012, 09:21 AM Gibonius is offline  
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Republicans have already stated that they just want a president with enough fingers to hold a pen. Then they can pass all their backwards policies, like putting capital gains at zero, privatising education, privatising prisons, going to war with Iran, making campaign contributions unlimited and anonymous, stripping blacks; women; and the elderly from voting rights, killing all unions, and establishing Christianty as the state religion.
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Old 06-02-2012, 09:33 AM :ninja: is offline  
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joemama
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Originally Posted by :ninja: View Post
Republicans have already stated that they just want a president with enough fingers to hold a pen. Then they can pass all their backwards policies, like putting capital gains at zero, privatising education, privatising prisons, going to war with Iran, making campaign contributions unlimited and anonymous, stripping blacks; women; and the elderly from voting rights, killing all unions, and establishing Christianty as the state religion.
Wait, I thought it was only conservatives that made broad generalizations and spouted

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Old 06-02-2012, 10:19 AM joemama is offline  
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joemama
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Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
I don't think people are trying to take anything away from Reagan. What he did worked for that recession. People are questioning A) the dogma from the Republicans about what Reagan actually did and B) the application of "Reaganomics" to today.


I think that's just a "politics" mindset, not liberal or conservative.

That's not entirely untrue. The US hasn't declared war since 1942 but we've fought in quite a number of conflicts.
True, but Republicans aren't the only ones that reach back to the Reagan years...Obama has even done it himself.

Yes, that's true...but it seems liberals are far harsher on Bush than conservatives were with Clinton's legacy.

What I'm seeing a lot these days are people that forget that Afghanistan and even Iraq to a lesser degree were started as bi-partisan conflicts. I see a lot of "poor Obama has to clean up Bushes mess"...as if Democrats (including Secretary of State Clinton and Presidential candidate John Kerry) weren't privy to the same intel and never voted for U.S. involvement in either conflict.
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Old 06-02-2012, 10:29 AM joemama is offline  
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Originally Posted by :ninja: View Post
Republicans have already stated that they just want a president with enough fingers to hold a pen. Then they can pass all their backwards policies, like putting capital gains at zero, privatising education, privatising prisons, going to war with Iran, making campaign contributions unlimited and anonymous, stripping blacks; women; and the elderly from voting rights, killing all unions, and establishing Christianty as the state religion.

Yeah they want to be able to take a million dollars from the Chinese government for their election campaigns.
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Old 06-02-2012, 01:25 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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Yeah they want to be able to take a million dollars from the Chinese government for their election campaigns.
Wait...are you suggesting that outsourcing picked up steam under a Democratic President? *cough*  Clinton  *cough*  NAFTA 

Everyone knows that anything that is seen as less than good for the country was the direct result of Reagan or a Bush.
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Old 06-02-2012, 02:29 PM joemama is offline  
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TUT RAGE!!!
 
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black man doin his thing baby barrack obama mother fucker barrack obama im the president of hittin that ass
Old 06-02-2012, 02:45 PM TUT RAGE!!! is offline  
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Originally Posted by joemama View Post
Uhh..according to my dad

and this is why so many people are misinformed about our political and economic history. you take your information from your dad who may not have known wtf he was talking about when he was living through it and instead of fact checking him, take it as sacrosanct because clearly if your old man lived in that era then everything he says about it must be completely accurate

History does not agree with your father.
Old 06-02-2012, 02:54 PM SemperFly is offline  
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Originally Posted by joemama View Post
My point is that if you acknowledge that things were worse in the early 80's than today (and give Obama credit for that) then you at least have to give partial credit to Reagan for pulling us out back then. But I agree with what you said earlier about the President having influence, but not absolute control of the economy. However the liberal mindset seems to be the President takes full credit for good/bad (or just bad if they're anything but Democrat) and can single handedly start wars.

And how did he pull us out? By spending tons of government money and raising taxes on the rich. By doing the exact thing that republicans are saying is bad.
Old 06-02-2012, 02:57 PM SemperFly is offline  
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Gibonius
 
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Yes, that's true...but it seems liberals are far harsher on Bush than conservatives were with Clinton's legacy.
Two things on that one:
Bush was a much worse president than Clinton.
Things have gotten a LOT more negative over the past decade, and it had just started under Clinton's tenure. Look at how Republicans treat Obama. It's worse than anything Bush saw.
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What I'm seeing a lot these days are people that forget that Afghanistan and even Iraq to a lesser degree were started as bi-partisan conflicts. I see a lot of "poor Obama has to clean up Bushes mess"...as if Democrats (including Secretary of State Clinton and Presidential candidate John Kerry) weren't privy to the same intel and never voted for U.S. involvement in either conflict.
I think foreign policy is one of those realms where you can and should hold the President primarily responsible. The war was Bush's idea, and he pushed hard to sell it. Congress went along with it, but we'd never have attacked without the concerted effort from the White House to sell it.

Also, I really don't know about the intel bit. I would assume the President gets access to much more intel than even the relevant committee members in Congress, and they get access to a lot more than the average Congressman.
Old 06-02-2012, 02:58 PM Gibonius is offline  
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joemama
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Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
Two things on that one:
Bush was a much worse president than Clinton.
Things have gotten a LOT more negative over the past decade, and it had just started under Clinton's tenure. Look at how Republicans treat Obama. It's worse than anything Bush saw.


I think foreign policy is one of those realms where you can and should hold the President primarily responsible. The war was Bush's idea, and he pushed hard to sell it. Congress went along with it, but we'd never have attacked without the concerted effort from the White House to sell it.

Also, I really don't know about the intel bit. I would assume the President gets access to much more intel than even the relevant committee members in Congress, and they get access to a lot more than the average Congressman.
I can agree that Clinton was better than Bush, but then again I was either in Middle school, High school or college during that period...and pretty wrapped up in my own little world. Bush only got a pass from the Democrats during his first term, and that was mostly due to respect for the unique situation of 9/11 and trying to maintain at least a facade of unity. Of course things started heating up near the end of that term, and really picked up steam when Kerry lost the election. And speaking of 9/11, do even revisionist historians think that Bush would have gotten involved in Afghanistan/Iraq if it never happened? Iraq was a mistake (and we all know that now) but everyone conveniently forgets that our current Secretary of State was part of the Senate Intelligence Committee and voted for the Iraq invasion based on intel. (along with numerous other democrats) Surely someone who was Vice Pres...err...First Lady for 8 years prior would know if the President got different or more indepth intel than the Senate..
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Old 06-02-2012, 03:55 PM joemama is offline  
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Originally Posted by joemama View Post
I can agree that Clinton was better than Bush, but then again I was either in Middle school, High school or college during that period...and pretty wrapped up in my own little world. Bush only got a pass from the Democrats during his first term, and that was mostly due to respect for the unique situation of 9/11 and trying to maintain at least a facade of unity. Of course things started heating up near the end of that term, and really picked up steam when Kerry lost the election. And speaking of 9/11, do even revisionist historians think that Bush would have gotten involved in Afghanistan/Iraq if it never happened? Iraq was a mistake (and we all know that now) but everyone conveniently forgets that our current Secretary of State was part of the Senate Intelligence Committee and voted for the Iraq invasion based on intel. (along with numerous other democrats) Surely someone who was Vice Pres...err...First Lady for 8 years prior would know if the President got different or more indepth intel than the Senate..

Iraq was not a mistake, you are just a misinformed idiot.
You have been blinded by the liberal media, you fucking fool.
Keep believing what the liberal media shovels into your mouth as truth you fucking sniveling sorry excuse for a human being.
Old 06-02-2012, 05:30 PM TUT RAGE!!! is offline  
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Well for those in here who think Obama has done a piss poor job, they really dont have many other options now do they?

It seems that every presidential race is about the lesser of two evils. No one president is going to be the best at everything. Obama burned his fire hot on the healthcare law, and if it gets struck down by the courts, he will be almost the same failure as Carter.
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Old 06-02-2012, 05:52 PM zumpiez5 is offline  
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Gibonius
 
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Originally Posted by TUT RAGE!!! View Post
Iraq was not a mistake, you are just a misinformed idiot.
You have been blinded by the liberal media, you fucking fool.
Keep believing what the liberal media shovels into your mouth as truth you fucking sniveling sorry excuse for a human being.

Old 06-02-2012, 06:35 PM Gibonius is offline  
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