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[H]ard|On
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The Pledge and the US self identity v. not about under god

This thing had about 50,000 shares on Facebook.




People from other countries are surprised we have this pledge in the first place. Even in the USSR there was no such daily requirement of propaganda. Making a promise every day to a flag, it's a little 1st Reich. There's your dilemma - the flag symbolizes freedom yet you need to do this and say that... Maybe we can all stop pretending that kids chanting something every day makes a positive difference. The cartoon implies soldiers might take it personally which is a little silly. A cheap play on emotions to make a "point" by someone who likes the pledge.

So the correct response from the kid in the chair would be to say "thanks" and remain seated, wouldn't it? There is nothing wrong with using your rights, otherwise what's the point of having them?

The largest negative side-effect of it, besides wasting time, is instilling the notion that a country can do no wrong. Which is often confused with patriotism. True patriotism is caring about your country, being vigilant and making sure it doesn't head down the wrong road. Which is why there was so much emphasis put on checks and balances upon it's inception. Not chanting stuff every day for 12 years since you can walk.

Then there's the last thing - the pledge is to the flag. Which represents our country. Can you want the best for your nation and still think the pledge is stupid? Of course. But where do the marines come in? Why do we have such a militaristic self identity these days? Everything is because of the military. They are freedom and freedom wants to be just like them. Every ounce of air you breathe is because of the US Marines. If you question tradition you're offending the Marines.... Etc





Cliffs:
The pledge is a silly vestigial of the McCarthy era, and people need to stop bringing the Marines into everything.



FYI: the pledge was originally coined by a socialist, and "under god" was added in 1954 for good measure. Jehovahs Witnesses have been suing ever since.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance
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Old 06-23-2012, 05:34 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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pyramid
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Our soldiers haven't been used to defend our rights since WW2.
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Old 06-23-2012, 05:40 PM pyramid is offline  
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[H]ard|On
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyramid View Post
Our soldiers haven't been used to defend our rights since WW2.

Let's ignore the obvious shortcomings of the "marines = freedom" argument

Plus if Nazis won we'd be saying the same thing just to a different flag... lol, jk. I actually believe that if Hitler had somehow "won" ww2, the nazi regime wouldn't have lasted.
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Old 06-23-2012, 05:42 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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[H]ard|On
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Ps. I meant 3rd reich not 1st, oops
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Old 06-23-2012, 05:46 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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incoming bflaps vig TUT posts :
defending our rights genmay and birdwatching
Old 06-23-2012, 05:48 PM cc88 is offline  
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[H]ard|On
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cc88 View Post
incoming bflaps vig TUT posts :
defending our rights genmay and birdwatching

Without them there wouldn't be genmay


In the meantime....





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Old 06-23-2012, 05:54 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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tegandje
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I stand for the pledge all the time.







































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































*Roundel salute!*
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Old 06-23-2012, 05:56 PM tegandje is offline  
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TheMorlock
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I dont use pledge. I prefer Endust
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Old 06-23-2012, 05:59 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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Gibonius
 
I never said the pledge in school. Stood up but just didn't say anything.
Old 06-23-2012, 08:44 PM Gibonius is offline  
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misanthrope
 
Reich is a German word that roughly translates into "empire" and I fail to see how a failed 3rd empire comes into play here.

Ignorance of the German language notwithstanding, we haven't had a significant danger to the US government since 1812 and at that time none of the soldiers would have wanted anything to do with a single country because America was originally founded and thought of as a union of states, not a single country.

However, when I was growing up as a twinkly eyed young lad in our great public school system(motto: teechin youre keds) the pledge was nothing more than a morning ritual that interrupted the time we would be putting gum in girls hair and other important things. I never felt patriotic and whether there is or isn't a pledge in the morning won't make a bit of difference to a bunch of public school kids who are completely apathetic to the whole issue.
Old 06-23-2012, 09:42 PM misanthrope is offline  
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[H]ard|On
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misanthrope View Post
Reich is a German word that roughly translates into "empire" and I fail to see how a failed 3rd empire comes into play here.

Ignorance of the German language notwithstanding, we haven't had a significant danger to the US government since 1812 and at that time none of the soldiers would have wanted anything to do with a single country because America was originally founded and thought of as a union of states, not a single country.

However, when I was growing up as a twinkly eyed young lad in our great public school system(motto: teechin youre keds) the pledge was nothing more than a morning ritual that interrupted the time we would be putting gum in girls hair and other important things. I never felt patriotic and whether there is or isn't a pledge in the morning won't make a bit of difference to a bunch of public school kids who are completely apathetic to the whole issue.

1) How did I misunderstand or misuse reich

2) i agree
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Old 06-23-2012, 10:28 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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[H]ard|On
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I think Andje wins the thread
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Old 06-23-2012, 10:28 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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misanthrope
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by [H]ard|On View Post
1) How did I misunderstand or misuse reich

2) i agree

Not sure how you did it, it's a rather simple term, however, I can tell you where you misused it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by [H]ard|On View Post
This thing had about 50,000 shares on Facebook.



People from other countries are surprised we have this pledge in the first place. Even in the USSR there was no such daily requirement of propaganda. Making a promise every day to a flag, it's a little 1st Reich. There's your dilemma - the flag symbolizes freedom yet you need to do this and say that... Maybe we can all stop pretending that kids chanting something every day makes a positive difference. The cartoon implies soldiers might take it personally which is a little silly. A cheap play on emotions to make a "point" by someone who likes the pledge.

So the correct response from the kid in the chair would be to say "thanks" and remain seated, wouldn't it? There is nothing wrong with using your rights, otherwise what's the point of having them?

The largest negative side-effect of it, besides wasting time, is instilling the notion that a country can do no wrong. Which is often confused with patriotism. True patriotism is caring about your country, being vigilant and making sure it doesn't head down the wrong road. Which is why there was so much emphasis put on checks and balances upon it's inception. Not chanting stuff every day for 12 years since you can walk.

Then there's the last thing - the pledge is to the flag. Which represents our country. Can you want the best for your nation and still think the pledge is stupid? Of course. But where do the marines come in? Why do we have such a militaristic self identity these days? Everything is because of the military. They are freedom and freedom wants to be just like them. Every ounce of air you breathe is because of the US Marines. If you question tradition you're offending the Marines.... Etc





Cliffs:
The pledge is a silly vestigial of the McCarthy era, and people need to stop bringing the Marines into everything.



FYI: the pledge was originally coined by a socialist, and "under god" was added in 1954 for good measure. Jehovahs Witnesses have been suing ever since.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance
Old 06-24-2012, 05:19 AM misanthrope is offline  
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pojke
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by [H]ard|On View Post
This thing had about 50,000 shares on Facebook.

If you have too many friends on fb, things like this are a good way to start weeding them out. You can be pretty sure that anyone sharing that is a moron. The same types will usually be posting similar shit about how awful it is that "we can't pray in our schools" etc.
Old 06-24-2012, 10:36 AM pojke is offline  
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teh_rapist
 
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I've talked about this before, but: I was fucking SHOCKED to see this shit when I came to the states. My first day in a US high school, I speak the language fairly poorly, lesson started, and 10 minutes in THIS happens over the intercom. I was terrified. It immediately flashed in my head the videos of german children doing the prayer to the swastika in the morning. It was so frighteningly the same, I was in cold sweat for like five minutes.

It's bad that this exists, as is all propaganda. US propaganda is ridiculously omnipresent. I think it hurts the country. But I don't think it's going away.
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