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pyramid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [H]ard|On View Post
Pinkie Pie for 2012

Wait no she sounds like a socialist

PIE FOR EVERYPONY!
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Old 06-26-2012, 08:56 PM pyramid is offline  
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Why even have a national anthem then, retard? Why have ANYTHING unique to our country? According to you, we should never build any kind of bond with each other or pride in our country.

A nation where no one gives a shit about anyone is not a nation. It is just a group of people who happen to live around each other.

The whole fucking idea is to create a UNITED STATES. Not fucking Europe where they are all shitting on each other and hate each other. It builds respect for fellow citizens, and creates a unity with each other, so when someone needs help or we need to band together, we don't scatter like roaches.

Continue being a loner bitch who hates everything and everyone because you think you are better and smarter.

lolz I can't believe you're defending compulsory recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance in the name of national unity
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Old 06-26-2012, 09:12 PM 5ive is offline  
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[H]ard|On
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Im almost jealous that he gets all that from a one liner thought up by a socialist.

The republicans must love it because it says "republic" and "god"
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Old 06-26-2012, 10:08 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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I seem to remember another country that believes that forced recitation of praise for their country and leaders is beneficial. Shmorth Shmorea? Korth Norea? Something like that.

I think that's a guilt by association fallacy. Just sayin'.
Old 06-26-2012, 10:24 PM Gibonius is offline  
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Im almost jealous that he gets all that from a one liner thought up by a socialist.

The republicans must love it because it says "republic" and "god"

that dirty socialist forgot the "god" part in the original.

/all hail zombie reagan
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Old 06-26-2012, 11:06 PM pyramid is offline  
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Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
I think that's a guilt by association fallacy. Just sayin'.

I meant more along the lines of, most of us would tend to look down on a country, such as North Korea, for brainwashing it's citizens and forcing them to worship them. We think they're crazy and harsh and cruel for many reasons, not just the brainwashing bits but also of course the violence and treatment of it's citizens, the prison camps, the detainment, the holy fuck so many wrong things. However, a very strong reason that they have the power over the citizens they do is related to how well they brainwash them. And the belief that they SHOULD be brainwashed, for the good of the country, is so strong, that is what leads to their belief that people who are dissidents should be detained, for the good of their country. And by dissident, of course, I mean someone who didn't cry hard enough for the death of dear leader.

I didn't mean that because country a does x and country b does x they're completely the same, but rather that the quality, x that we see in both countries, is seen negatively in one and positively in another.
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Old 06-27-2012, 07:04 PM augusttremulous is offline  
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I didn't mean that because country a does x and country b does x they're completely the same, but rather that the quality, x that we see in both countries, is seen negatively in one and positively in another.

Maybe because country a's brainwashing results in a nation capable of ensuring global security and leading human affairs and country b's brainwashing results in millions of serfs imprisoned by a handful of thugs?

Everyone is going to learn some form of brainwashing. The consequences of our social values affect their moral weight.

Not that I believe anyone is actually becoming "brainwashed" by reciting the US pledge.
Old 06-29-2012, 02:18 AM bingstudent is offline  
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Maybe because country a's brainwashing results in a nation capable of ensuring global security and leading human affairs and country b's brainwashing results in millions of serfs imprisoned by a handful of thugs?

Everyone is going to learn some form of brainwashing. The consequences of our social values affect their moral weight.

Not that I believe anyone is actually becoming "brainwashed" by reciting the US pledge.

Yes, it's only the evil people that actually "brainwash" people. I mean jesus fuck your first paragraph, it's like the wittiest sarcastic line ever written in this context but it probably isn't
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Old 06-29-2012, 03:00 AM Straw Man is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augusttremulous View Post
I meant more along the lines of, most of us would tend to look down on a country, such as North Korea, for brainwashing it's citizens and forcing them to worship them. We think they're crazy and harsh and cruel for many reasons, not just the brainwashing bits but also of course the violence and treatment of it's citizens, the prison camps, the detainment, the holy fuck so many wrong things. However, a very strong reason that they have the power over the citizens they do is related to how well they brainwash them. And the belief that they SHOULD be brainwashed, for the good of the country, is so strong, that is what leads to their belief that people who are dissidents should be detained, for the good of their country. And by dissident, of course, I mean someone who didn't cry hard enough for the death of dear leader.

I didn't mean that because country a does x and country b does x they're completely the same, but rather that the quality, x that we see in both countries, is seen negatively in one and positively in another.


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Old 06-29-2012, 10:44 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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Old 06-29-2012, 04:06 PM waterbeds is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augusttremulous View Post
I meant more along the lines of, most of us would tend to look down on a country, such as North Korea, for brainwashing it's citizens and forcing them to worship them. We think they're crazy and harsh and cruel for many reasons, not just the brainwashing bits but also of course the violence and treatment of it's citizens, the prison camps, the detainment, the holy fuck so many wrong things. However, a very strong reason that they have the power over the citizens they do is related to how well they brainwash them. And the belief that they SHOULD be brainwashed, for the good of the country, is so strong, that is what leads to their belief that people who are dissidents should be detained, for the good of their country. And by dissident, of course, I mean someone who didn't cry hard enough for the death of dear leader.

I didn't mean that because country a does x and country b does x they're completely the same, but rather that the quality, x that we see in both countries, is seen negatively in one and positively in another.


Very well put.


I also look at Iran vs. Israel the same way, in regard to nuclear programs. Or anyone trying to excuse what we did in Guantanamo - when Saddam tortures people and keeps them without charges, that's terrorism. When we do it, we call it operation Iraqi freedom.

Granted USA isn't as full of double standards and as certain other nations but we're not at the bottom of the list either. Real patriotism is noticing these things, and nipping our own moral decay in the bud. Not so much praying at a piece of cloth.
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Old 06-29-2012, 05:22 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augusttremulous View Post
I meant more along the lines of, most of us would tend to look down on a country, such as North Korea, for brainwashing it's citizens and forcing them to worship them. We think they're crazy and harsh and cruel for many reasons, not just the brainwashing bits but also of course the violence and treatment of it's citizens, the prison camps, the detainment, the holy fuck so many wrong things. However, a very strong reason that they have the power over the citizens they do is related to how well they brainwash them. And the belief that they SHOULD be brainwashed, for the good of the country, is so strong, that is what leads to their belief that people who are dissidents should be detained, for the good of their country. And by dissident, of course, I mean someone who didn't cry hard enough for the death of dear leader.

I didn't mean that because country a does x and country b does x they're completely the same, but rather that the quality, x that we see in both countries, is seen negatively in one and positively in another.

i was going to say the difference here is that we can choose not to participate... but then i kept reading.

edit: ...but only for a line or two.
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Old 06-29-2012, 05:27 PM Xcric is offline  
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i was going to say the difference here is that we can choose not to participate... but then i kept reading.

edit: ...but only for a line or two.

Yes instead we publish cartoons bitching about how if you don't do it, you hate freedom and marines.

Ps.
the marines didn't fight for that right, the Jehovahs witnesses did.
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Old 06-29-2012, 05:37 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Yes, it's only the evil people that actually "brainwash" people. I mean jesus fuck your first paragraph, it's like the wittiest sarcastic line ever written in this context but it probably isn't

Broadly, my point is that no one is actually being brainwashed ... a lot of people live in the unenviable situation of having no societal power over their rulers and acquiesce as a result because it's still generally a better choice than being dead. On the other hand, many of us are lucky enough to live in liberal countries that make life relatively great and acquiesce because it's the best system available to us.

Le meilleur des mondes possibles.

It requires a pretty low opinion of humans to believe that praying to the state every morning as kids is the reason we accept the system as is ... rather, everyone is accepting the best possible of the very limited choices presented at any given moment.

Country A and country B both say the pledge so everything's relative! ... well, not really, because outcomes matter too. If we accept the "pledge=brainwashing" premise then pretending it's somehow equivalent no matter the nation being pledged to is either ignorant or dishonest and really just boils down to "Hitler wore pants."
Old 06-29-2012, 06:25 PM bingstudent is offline  
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Straw Man
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Broadly, my point is that no one is actually being brainwashed ... a lot of people live in the unenviable situation of having no societal power over their rulers and acquiesce as a result because it's still generally a better choice than being dead. On the other hand, many of us are lucky enough to live in liberal countries that make life relatively great and acquiesce because it's the best system available to us.

Le meilleur des mondes possibles.

It requires a pretty low opinion of humans to believe that praying to the state every morning as kids is the reason we accept the system as is ... rather, everyone is accepting the best possible of the very limited choices presented at any given moment.

Country A and country B both say the pledge so everything's relative! ... well, not really, because outcomes matter too. If we accept the "pledge=brainwashing" premise then pretending it's somehow equivalent no matter the nation being pledged to is either ignorant or dishonest and really just boils down to "Hitler wore pants."
The truth is that the pledge you kind of half seriously defend belongs to a country/ideology that has killed millions of more people than what your silly north korea example will ever muster up

the only difference seems to be that you want to use fancy words like "acquiesce" while trying to justify that utter

terrible, just terrible
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Old 06-29-2012, 07:38 PM Straw Man is offline  
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