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mikeawesome
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:06 PM mikeawesome is offline  
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DarkHelmet
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oddly appropriate to end this thread on
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:07 PM DarkHelmet is offline  
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pyramid
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That doesn't seem sanitary.
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:11 PM pyramid is offline  
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it's ok, she was wearing a sanitary napkin before they shot it.
Old 07-12-2012, 09:13 PM DarkHelmet is offline  
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joemama
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That's not what I said at all. There will never be as many people who have tried illegal hard drugs as alcohol. Hard drugs do not appeal to everyone. If they are made legal that is not going to change. The people who do hard drugs don't care about their legality and as such, they are already doing their hard drugs. The people who don't do hard drugs don't care that they are illegal, they aren't interested in doing them. You don't just randomly decide to get an 8 ball of coke if you've never done it before.

I would put hard drugs in their own stores, not in 7/11. I would put weed in it's own store too like the netherlands and the marijuana dispensaries in CA do. All they sell is weed and nothing else. You want to separate hard drugs from the soft drugs. I don't think there is anything wrong with the way alcohol and tobacco are sold now.
Which goes back to what I was saying about case by case (or drug by drug) basis. Right now the federal government doesn't really control alcohol/tobacco other than making sure companies producing such are licensed and taxed. That model won't work for certain highly addictive and dangerous drugs, meaning that the government will be forced into the drug dispensary business and all that entails. Yes, I know that some will argue that alcohol/cigs are just as dangerous and addictive as the so-called "hard stuff" out there.....but those same people will change the subject if you suggest they should all be treated the same way.

edit- your original argument was that more people are harmed by alcohol/cigs than illegal drugs...which kinda makes sense when there are tons more people that drink/smoke cigs..right?
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:13 PM joemama is offline  
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:14 PM DarkHelmet is offline  
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pyramid
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Which goes back to what I was saying about case by case (or drug by drug) basis. Right now the federal government doesn't really control alcohol/tobacco other than making sure companies producing such are licensed and taxed. That model won't work for certain highly addictive and dangerous drugs, meaning that the government will be forced into the drug dispensary business and all that entails. Yes, I know that some will argue that alcohol/cigs are just as dangerous and addictive as the so-called "hard stuff" out there.....but those same people will change the subject if you suggest they should all be treated the same way.

We already have pharmacies which sell dangerous addictive drugs. We already have weed dispensaries. Oregon even still has state run stores for hard alcohol. You can't buy anything but beer and wine in normal grocery/convenience stores here.

I don't see why a dedicated store for hard drugs would be so hard to implement. It could be government run and owned or just licensed like weed dispensaries and places that sell alcohol.
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:18 PM pyramid is offline  
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joemama
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We already have pharmacies which sell dangerous addictive drugs. We already have weed dispensaries. Oregon even still has state run stores for hard alcohol. You can't buy anything but beer and wine in normal grocery/convenience stores here.

I don't see why a dedicated store for hard drugs would be so hard to implement. It could be government run and owned or just licensed like weed dispensaries and places that sell alcohol.
When you talk about legalizing all drugs it opens up a huge can of worms with a lot of issues to work out, but a good start would be decriminalizing certain drugs to the same level as a traffic violation until legalization specifics are agreed upon. Caught with weed or a tiny bag of coke but otherwise weren't breaking any laws? Here's a fine...make sure you stay home next time, but we aren't going to put you in pound me in the ass until you prove to us you belong there..

Also, saying that people who don't do hard drugs now won't do them if they're legal isn't really true....it's a fact that neighborhoods with higher concentrations of liquor stores are also home to higher numbers of drinkers and alcoholics. Legality IS a barrier for people who don't do drugs...sometimes moreso than availability. You'll always have people that will try it for the first time if it's legal...and some of those people will like it so much that they will never want to stop spending all their disposable income down at the good ole govt dispensary. Then what have we created?
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Last edited by joemama; 07-12-2012 at 09:36 PM..
Old 07-12-2012, 09:27 PM joemama is offline  
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Originally Posted by joemama View Post
When you talk about legalizing all drugs it opens up a huge can of worms with a lot of issues to work out, but a good start would be decriminalizing certain drugs to the same level as a traffic violation until legalization specifics are agreed upon. Caught with weed or a tiny bag of coke but otherwise weren't breaking any laws? Here's a fine...make sure you stay home next time, but we aren't going to put you in pound me in the ass until you prove to us you belong there..

That would be a good start but the private prison industry and the police unions will fight even that kind of reform. The private prisons demand 90+% occupancy and the police get extra funding from the feds for making lots of drug arrests, even if they are mostly just individuals with tiny amounts of drugs.
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:38 PM pyramid is offline  
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joemama
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That would be a good start but the private prison industry and the police unions will fight even that kind of reform. The private prisons demand 90+% occupancy and the police get extra funding from the feds for making lots of drug arrests, even if they are mostly just individuals with tiny amounts of drugs.
Those are part of the worms that crawl out when you crack open the legalization can, but maybe the fines/money saved by not housing millions of people for years could help fund those police departments? Let the for profit prisons cut their costs other ways...like Warden/administrative salaries. I don't have all the answers, but I think the Ron Paul approach is a slippery slope that requires a lot of careful thought before sliding down..
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:49 PM joemama is offline  
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pyramid
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Also, saying that people who don't do hard drugs now won't do them if they're legal isn't really true....it's a fact that neighborhoods with higher concentrations of liquor stores are also home to higher numbers of drinkers and alcoholics. Legality IS a barrier for people who don't do drugs...sometimes moreso than availability. You'll always have people that will try it for the first time if it's legal...and some of those people will like it so much that they will never want to stop spending all their disposable income down at the good ole govt dispensary. Then what have we created?

Yes, some people will try them and some of those will become new addicts. That is unavoidable and happens regularly even now. But for the most part people who don't do hard drugs are not interested in trying them, legal or not. Someone who's never even smoked weed is not going to get a sudden hankering to do some PCP. If they and their circle of friends are not already doing drugs, they are not likely to suddenly want to.

Addiction is ALWAYS going to exist. We can either keep locking up people for drugs and then we pay for that with taxes or we can let the druggies fund their own rehab through taxes on their drugs...
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:50 PM pyramid is offline  
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joemama
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Yes, some people will try them and some of those will become new addicts. That is unavoidable and happens regularly even now. But for the most part people who don't do hard drugs are not interested in trying them, legal or not. Someone who's never even smoked weed is not going to get a sudden hankering to do some PCP. If they and their circle of friends are not already doing drugs, they are not likely to suddenly want to.

Addiction is ALWAYS going to exist. We can either keep locking up people for drugs and then we pay for that with taxes or we can let the druggies fund their own rehab through taxes on their drugs...
The problem with the government dispensing drugs (btw, can you imagine a government lackey handing out something that was originally a veterinary anesthetic?) is they (and we by proxy) are responsible for the consequences. Are these same people who would never do hard drugs illegal or otherwise going to be fine paying extra taxes to take care of the people that do? Yes, I know we're already paying for it one way or the other...but as it is now the percieved responsibility is on the users and dealers who are breaking the law.
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:58 PM joemama is offline  
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fucking armchair psychologists
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Old 07-12-2012, 11:08 PM BlisterDick is offline  
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take all the seized dope, add some poison that takes 2 weeks to show symptoms, and is unstoppable, horribly painful death, like arsenic, and lay it all out on every street corner, for anyone to take. Anyone stupid enough and weak enough to take dope deserves to get gone from this earth. Ditto alchohol and tobacco, of course.

stfu courtney
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Old 07-12-2012, 11:52 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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What the fuck is "dope"
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Old 07-13-2012, 12:49 AM [H]ard|On is offline  
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