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5ive
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcric View Post
that second link was interesting to read, but it invalidates itself by trying to blame every single short coming of one generation on another.

The problems we face now were not created by us. It's not a generational conflict because both young and old are affected by it, but it certainly isn't (entirely) our fault that student debt is through the roof, that jobs aren't available, that Congress can't do anything.

We were told that education was the key to success and happiness. Now education costs too much and there are no jobs - but we get blamed for being lazy. What?
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Old 08-08-2012, 05:00 AM 5ive is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5ive View Post
The problems we face now were not created by us. It's not a generational conflict because both young and old are affected by it, but it certainly isn't (entirely) our fault that student debt is through the roof, that jobs aren't available, that Congress can't do anything.

We were told that education was the key to success and happiness. Now education costs too much and there are no jobs - but we get blamed for being lazy. What?

It's accountability. Not a one knows what it is or how it should be applied, Vietnam era or millennial. We can fix it, but it requires that we all lose our pride first. I'm not sure how to cause that to happen, since that's a very personal thing that has to be accomplished on one's own initiative.
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Old 08-08-2012, 05:13 AM Jack's raging erection is offline  
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joemama
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Quote:
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The problems we face now were not created by us. It's not a generational conflict because both young and old are affected by it, but it certainly isn't (entirely) our fault that student debt is through the roof, that jobs aren't available, that Congress can't do anything.

We were told that education was the key to success and happiness. Now education costs too much and there are no jobs - but we get blamed for being lazy. What?
But it IS a generational conflict. Each generation has their strong and weak points....the "greatest generation" (who were teens and early 20's during WW2) lifted this country up to be the strongest superpower in the world during the 50's-60's, the boomers tipped off the technology explosion of the 70's-80's, and Gen X (of which I am a tail end member) kept that going somewhat, but seemed to exploit existing ideas more than innovating. Each generation since (Y and Millenials) are just starting to make their mark on the world, but it doesn't look good so far. The problem is that each generation (including WW2) in an effort to make sure their children "have things better than they did" took things to the extreme (more possessions="better") and forgot to pass on the best parts of their generation. Now we're reaching a point where it may not be possible for future generations to have things better than their parents.

To sum it all up, each generation since WW2 has been progressively better educated and with better opportunities available, but seems to do less with what they're given. Everyone seems to be looking out for themselves without any regard to what is good for the country as a whole or even future generations. I'm not saying we should have a China style hive mind, but the kind of thinking that produces college graduates that expect to be bringing in $200K a year, with a house, nice car, boat, huge flatscreens in every room etc..by the time they're 25 is contributing to the problems this country is facing right now. Rampant consumerism and narcissitic behavior wouldn't be so bad if most of the goods we consumed were made here at home...but they aren't.

And no, the problems on Wall Street aren't separate from everything else....and each generation but the newest has contributed their share to that mess, and no doubt the millenials would have joined in the fun if things hadn't come crashing down a few years ago.
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Last edited by joemama; 08-08-2012 at 07:36 AM..
Old 08-08-2012, 07:23 AM joemama is offline  
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I believe that the intuitionthat you should have your basic needs met, always, is a correct intuition that most OWS people have.

You should never have to worry about losing your small studio apartment, losing a cheap car, not getting proper food, and not getting basic healthcare. These basics should be provided for. No one should be living on the streets, and no one should have to eat bad food, and no one should be suffering needlessly from easily corrected health problems, and no one should have to bust their balls to get adequate transportation...... that basics should be provided by a system. I've....ultimately decided that the system where all basics would be provided would be a far better system all around for everyone, because if everyone had basics covered this would primarily do three things:

number 4: Create a large self perpetuating class that lives "on the Dole", producing nothing but more members for this class, consuming ever more resources w/o contributing to the system that provides those resources. Eventually they consume more then the contributors produce (or what is taken from the producers). The system then collapses.

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Old 08-08-2012, 10:16 AM topcat989 is offline  
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Forever Domon
 
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number 4: Create a large self perpetuating class that lives "on the Dole", producing nothing but more members for this class, consuming ever more resources w/o contributing to the system that provides those resources. Eventually they consume more then the contributors produce (or what is taken from the producers). The system the collapses.
dont forget that theyre proud to be mooching off the government. And have no sense of dignity in earning their own keep.

Remember the days when people used to be ashamed of "charity" ?

Neither do i. Since it hasnt happened since the 1950s.
Old 08-08-2012, 10:18 AM Forever Domon is offline  
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I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did. The fucking losers, bums and retards that mostly made up the OWS lacked the determination and peristence to win at life, what makes you think they'd stick with something as difficult and tedious as continuing some lame protest for any extended period of time?

Are you dumb? They made PLENTY of determination and persistence to camp out in those public parks! They fucking worked their asses off sleeping there every night! Imagine if they put those into a job, though! Oh by golly Jim, I think we have an idea!
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:34 AM s0me0nesmind1 is offline  
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Banging drums, shitting on park benches and raping stoned girls in a make-shift tent might also be considered tough work I guess...
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:39 AM Baloneyflaps. is offline  
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Quote:
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that second link was interesting to read, but it invalidates itself by trying to blame every single short coming of one generation on another.

You know the worst thing about this generation? They can't take ANY criticism. I'm the type of person who considers any criticism good criticism. Take what any person said, regardless of how harsh it is, and it can be used to actually evaluate any changes needed. Everyone at that graduation speech - especially the parents - are fucking toolbags that simply can't take useful advice. I was fucking proud of that man for his speech, more people like him need to be around /tear
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:40 AM s0me0nesmind1 is offline  
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ITT: The intellectual level of the liberals here.
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Old 08-08-2012, 11:33 AM s0me0nesmind1 is offline  
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dio
 
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number 4: Create a large self perpetuating class that lives "on the Dole", producing nothing but more members for this class, consuming ever more resources w/o contributing to the system that provides those resources. Eventually they consume more then the contributors produce (or what is taken from the producers). The system then collapses.

I understand where your coming from, and I would never doubt for a second that there will be a percentage of people who just leech and are useless. There will ALWAYS be such a percentage, in any system.

However I think in the system I previously outlined that percentage will become less.

I have noticed something in common deadbeat leeches, that get addicted to drugs, and don't do anything. The prerequisite condition to such a person is depression, they are all depressed, terribly. The problem of deadbeats isn't an issue of dealing with the 'just' human nature, it's an issue of dealing with a culture that is prone to intensely depressing the fuck out of a certain percentage of people. I have come to conclusion that it really is not human nature to sit around being useless. In a healthy tribal entity, everyone would want to participate, young boys would want to go out and be taught how to hunt, young males take on more and more responsibility for the tribe because it would give you purpose, a reason to live, it would make you a more suitable mate. Doing more for your community I believe is human nature, it makes your life more fullfilling, people want to naturally do it, it is where the natural flow of life takes humans.

But in our culture the divide between 'actually doing something for ones community' and not doing anything is too great. People become far too aware of the risk it takes to push past starbucks barista, or grocery clerk, to actually doing something highly valuable for the community, like getting to higher education, or making a profitable business, and so they never try to. Even lower than that, people who aren't in easily replaceable commodity jobs don't see how they can get to the next level in anyway whatsoever and when your in a position where you don't feel like it is possible for you actually follow out your human nature, and join the greater community contributing to the good of humanity. Then you become depressed, and you simply don't do anything.

We even have entire generations who have been employed by shitty employers there whole lives, and pretty much psychologically traumatized by it and don't even know what it means or feels like to really contribute to humanity in a way that makes you feel good. Then they raise there kids under this mentality teaching imparting the wisdom of how terrible work is, and you get generations and generations of kids thinking 'work' is a great bane to the enjoyment of their existence. When really it shouldn't be, I think a persons work should be the great highlight of their existence, their one great contribution to the human enterprise. But for people who have been employed by shitty employers in de-humanizing positions all their life, they can't even understand how it could be possible that working, contributing, can be a source of great happiness, and the peak of their life experience. They instead come to believe that 'partying' and 'doin drugs' are the great peak of existence.

If the boundary between doing nothing and actually attempting to be able to do something was made smaller, more people would actually try to do something. Over and over and over. Then if the ability for shitty employers to exist dissapeared, and freed the people from having to fuck themsleves up psychologically for a measely paycheck, then people would attempt to do over and over again what they really feel like they should be doing. This would ultimately cause a plethora of new business come into existence run by people who actually want to do what they are doing, being helped by people who actually want to help, while more easily offering the ability for anyone else to come along and attempt to help, without risk, so I believe more people would ultimately end up actually helping, even more so than in our current culture.
Old 08-08-2012, 11:54 AM dio is offline  
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The only way to make the percentage of leech become less? Make human lives not worth anything. Be like china and give them the handgun to kill themself.
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Old 08-08-2012, 11:56 AM s0me0nesmind1 is offline  
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Forever Domon
 
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I understand where your coming from, and I would never doubt for a second that there will be a percentage of people who just leech and are useless. There will ALWAYS be such a percentage, in any system.

However I think in the system I previously outlined that percentage will become less.

I have noticed something in common deadbeat leeches, that get addicted to drugs, and don't do anything. The prerequisite condition to such a person is depression, they are all depressed, terribly. The problem of deadbeats isn't an issue of dealing with the 'just' human nature, it's an issue of dealing with a culture that is prone to intensely depressing the fuck out of a certain percentage of people. I have come to conclusion that it really is not human nature to sit around being useless. In a healthy tribal entity, everyone would want to participate, young boys would want to go out and be taught how to hunt, young males take on more and more responsibility for the tribe because it would give you purpose, a reason to live, it would make you a more suitable mate. Doing more for your community I believe is human nature, it makes your life more fullfilling, people want to naturally do it, it is where the natural flow of life takes humans.

But in our culture the divide between 'actually doing something for ones community' and not doing anything is too great. People become far too aware of the risk it takes to push past starbucks barista, or grocery clerk, to actually doing something highly valuable for the community, like getting to higher education, or making a profitable business, and so they never try to. Even lower than that, people who aren't in easily replaceable commodity jobs don't see how they can get to the next level in anyway whatsoever and when your in a position where you don't feel like it is possible for you actually follow out your human nature, and join the greater community contributing to the good of humanity. Then you become depressed, and you simply don't do anything.

We even have entire generations who have been employed by shitty employers there whole lives, and pretty much psychologically traumatized by it and don't even know what it means or feels like to really contribute to humanity in a way that makes you feel good. Then they raise there kids under this mentality teaching imparting the wisdom of how terrible work is, and you get generations and generations of kids thinking 'work' is a great bane to the enjoyment of their existence. When really it shouldn't be, I think a persons work should be the great highlight of their existence, their one great contribution to the human enterprise. But for people who have been employed by shitty employers in de-humanizing positions all their life, they can't even understand how it could be possible that working, contributing, can be a source of great happiness, and the peak of their life experience. They instead come to believe that 'partying' and 'doin drugs' are the great peak of existence.

If the boundary between doing nothing and actually attempting to be able to do something was made smaller, more people would actually try to do something. Over and over and over. Then if the ability for shitty employers to exist dissapeared, and freed the people from having to fuck themsleves up psychologically for a measely paycheck, then people would attempt to do over and over again what they really feel like they should be doing. This would ultimately cause a plethora of new business come into existence run by people who actually want to do what they are doing, being helped by people who actually want to help, while more easily offering the ability for anyone else to come along and attempt to help, without risk, so I believe more people would ultimately end up actually helping, even more so than in our current culture.
so everyone who is on drugs is depressed eh. Im glad you're such an expert at sweeping generalizations.

Also. Are you depressed? Because drugs have fucked you up more than 90% of these people.
Old 08-08-2012, 12:05 PM Forever Domon is offline  
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joemama
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Not saying that everyone of a particular generation is like this, (boomers say my generation is spoiled, Gen X says that Y is spoiled and so on..) but this sort of thing has contributed to the problems we face today...and it's not just kids that grow up in a wealthy household.

http://money.msn.com/frugal-living/p...c-2e88e6a14413
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:24 PM joemama is offline  
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5ive
 
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Quote:
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number 4: Create a large self perpetuating class that lives "on the Dole", producing nothing but more members for this class, consuming ever more resources w/o contributing to the system that provides those resources. Eventually they consume more then the contributors produce (or what is taken from the producers). The system then collapses.

And we call them investment bankers

(you walked right into that one)
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:37 PM 5ive is offline  
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5ive
 
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The only way to make the percentage of leech become less? Make human lives not worth anything. Be like china and give them the handgun to kill themself.

quoting for posterity
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