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Gibonius
 
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Originally Posted by [H]ard|On View Post
What about impact to society? Brittney Spears has irrelevant to negative impact on society and she makes more than you and the teachers combined every few days from album sales. Does this bother you?
Not really, because people can choose to buy her shitty music or not. My money goes to pay for teachers, so some discussion of how to compensate them is part of the political discourse. I don't think our best rate of return is going to be on pushing teacher salary into the upper %'s of all incomes.

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Okay what grade did you teach and why did you stop - if your current job is HARDER and PAYS LESS
College level chemistry. One of those science teachers that's evidently hard to find. The teaching part is mostly the same as high school but I didn't have to deal with all the "supporting student's personal development" stuff.

Now I'm a researcher. I don't recall saying I made less doing what I do now, simply that there are teachers here who make about what I do (although my ceiling is a lot higher).

I moved because teaching didn't push my buttons. I didn't think I could be an effective teacher long term, simply because I figured I'd get bored, bitter, and disengaged if I stayed in it. Really wasn't motivated by the money.

I think that's a common problem among science teachers, relatively few are interested in teaching at all. The mentality the leads people to science doesn't have the greatest overlap with teaching. You'd have to pay out the nose to encourage them to teach and that's going to pull in people who care more about money than teaching which is probably not so effective.

A better system, I'd say, is finding people who want to teach and encouraging them to get a sufficient science education to be able to teach it effectively. Forgive student debt for science majors who teach, incentives like that.
Old 09-13-2012, 08:32 PM Gibonius is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
Not really, because people can choose to buy her shitty music or not. My money goes to pay for teachers, so some discussion of how to compensate them is part of the political discourse. I don't think our best rate of return is going to be on pushing teacher salary into the upper %'s of all incomes.


College level chemistry. One of those science teachers that's evidently hard to find. The teaching part is mostly the same as high school but I didn't have to deal with all the "supporting student's personal development" stuff.

Now I'm a researcher. I don't recall saying I made less doing what I do now, simply that there are teachers here who make about what I do (although my ceiling is a lot higher).

I moved because teaching didn't push my buttons. I didn't think I could be an effective teacher long term, simply because I figured I'd get bored, bitter, and disengaged if I stayed in it. Really wasn't motivated by the money.

I think that's a common problem among science teachers, relatively few are interested in teaching at all. The mentality the leads people to science doesn't have the greatest overlap with teaching. You'd have to pay out the nose to encourage them to teach and that's going to pull in people who care more about money than teaching which is probably not so effective.

A better system, I'd say, is finding people who want to teach and encouraging them to get a sufficient science education to be able to teach it effectively. Forgive student debt for science majors who teach, incentives like that.

Once you become a teacher you're not in for life. Teachers get evaluated constantly, and do get fired for poor performance, bad conduct and all the rest as you know.

So those that are in it "for the money" will be under performing as evidenced by their class statistics and standardized tests. If they are in it for the money and their kids are doing WELL then it means they are doing their jobs.

I think you're just griping rather than objectively thinking about whether or not teachers get a fair wage. Nobody is saying we must push teachers to the "top of all incomes" - that's something you added. Me and people like me are simply defending the teachers from morons like SomeonesKind.

Only a retard like him would assume they are going to get what they are asking for anyway - even the dumbest redneck knows you ask for more than you want and leave room to "compromise" so even if they get it, it's still a fairly average salary.

All the republitards want to cut their salaries for whatever fucking reason - and yours too since "research" isn't in the constitution OR the bible
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Old 09-13-2012, 09:52 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Gibonius
 
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Once you become a teacher you're not in for life. Teachers get evaluated constantly, and do get fired for poor performance, bad conduct and all the rest as you know.

So those that are in it "for the money" will be under performing as evidenced by their class statistics and standardized tests. If they are in it for the money and their kids are doing WELL then it means they are doing their jobs.
I don't know enough about how K-12 teachers are evaluated to really say if it's effective or not. Nobody seems all that happy with our current system though.

Either way, I really just don't think that we're going to see a significant influx of "good teachers" just by raising the salary. You can pull existing people to your district, away from other districts, but I don't really think it's going to substantially increase the number of excellent teachers in the whole system. Unless you pay teachers substantially more than the going rate in competing professions, that is, which rapidly becomes untenable financially.
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I think you're just griping rather than objectively thinking about whether or not teachers get a fair wage. Nobody is saying we must push teachers to the "top of all incomes" - that's something you added.
Apparently the teacher's union in Chicago wants that, since $90k average salary is a lot of damn money. Teachers in my county too are on that scale and still aren't happy about it. Obviously everybody wants more money but doesn't feel reasonable to me for teaching to be one of the most well compensated professions out there.

Quote:
Only a retard like him would assume they are going to get what they are asking for anyway - even the dumbest redneck knows you ask for more than you want and leave room to "compromise" so even if they get it, it's still a fairly average salary.
The raise to 90k was already agreed on, that wasn't the bone of contention. Presumably they asked for more.
Old 09-14-2012, 09:31 AM Gibonius is offline  
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In mother Russia, teacher get raise BEFORE good work. kekekeeke.

To be honest, off the union pedestal for a brief moment - teachers need to be able to smack the shit out of kids. Bring back some ol' smack the kid with a ruler.
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:39 AM s0me0nesmind1 is offline  
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Cliffs:

1. herp derp
2. common sense
3. amazing revelation that OP is a moron.
4. rinse
5. repeat
6. ???
7. profit
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:41 AM Jack's raging erection is offline  
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Cliffs:

1. herp derp
2. common sense
3. amazing revelation that OP is a moron.
4. rinse
5. repeat
6. ???
7. profit

Don't you have some more insecurity bonecloset threads to be making ?
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:56 AM s0me0nesmind1 is offline  
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Don't you have some more insecurity bonecloset threads to be making ?

Nope.
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Old 09-14-2012, 11:02 AM Jack's raging erection is offline  
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Gibonius
 
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To be honest, off the union pedestal for a brief moment - teachers need to be able to smack the shit out of kids. Bring back some ol' smack the kid with a ruler.

Nah.


Where did this movement to bring back corporal punishment come from, anyway?
Old 09-14-2012, 12:46 PM Gibonius is offline  
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Nah.


Where did this movement to bring back corporal punishment come from, anyway?

Kids these days will jump in a class room and yell yo' fuck dis shit and walk out. Aside from government, kids need to learn what authority is until they are on their own. Not sure what it was like for you in the high school days. It also goes hand-in-hand with this:




"It's NOT MY FAULT! It's <insert-someone-indirectly-connected-to-kid>!!"
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Old 09-14-2012, 01:00 PM s0me0nesmind1 is offline  
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Nah.


Where did this movement to bring back corporal punishment come from, anyway?

Florida still has it with a parent signed waiver

HOLY CRAP! postin on the intarwebs from my phone!
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Old 09-14-2012, 01:31 PM asa is offline  
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You said it was directly the single biggest cause of better education. I'm going to postulate that districts that pay their teachers more have higher budgets in general and also happen to be teaching wealthier kids.

And if all you can say is "paying teachers more doesn't lead to declines in quality," I think you need a better argument for spending taxpayer's money.

Yes let's pay teachers shit, cut education spending and get rid of unions and we're going to save a shit ton of money because one district in VA happens to pay less then a district in a different state. I think you need a better argument than that too.
Old 09-14-2012, 01:54 PM astriy is offline  
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Gibonius
 
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Yes let's pay teachers shit, cut education spending and get rid of unions and we're going to save a shit ton of money because one district in VA happens to pay less then a district in a different state.

I am advocating for none of those things. I am advocating for not arbitrarily raising teacher pay without evidence that it's effective, evidence you have not provided.

Quote:
I think you need a better argument than that too.
You have certainly done a glorious job supporting your thesis that teacher pay is "the determining factor" in student outcomes. What with the zero evidence you've provided and all.
Old 09-14-2012, 02:06 PM Gibonius is offline  
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I am advocating for none of those things. I am advocating for not arbitrarily raising teacher pay without evidence that it's effective, evidence you have not provided.


You have certainly done a glorious job supporting your thesis that teacher pay is "the determining factor" in student outcomes. What with the zero evidence you've provided and all.

What gets me is how a lot of republicans deplore public schools. They say a private/charter school will always be better.

Why though? Perhaps because it will pay more to the staff? They never care to explain the actual mechanism. I do see how an increase in pay will attract better candidates, or at the very least more of them to choose from.

Should a teacher get paid less than a nurse? About the same? More? Either way there are fields that will steal away people from other fields, and usually it comes down to the money.
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Old 09-14-2012, 04:38 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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What gets me is how a lot of republicans deplore public schools. They say a private/charter school will always be better.

Why though? Perhaps because it will pay more to the staff? They never care to explain the actual mechanism. I do see how an increase in pay will attract better candidates, or at the very least more of them to choose from.

Should a teacher get paid less than a nurse? About the same? More? Either way there are fields that will steal away people from other fields, and usually it comes down to the money.


Uhhh I have never heard republicans advocating that shit - especially given the cost. Buuut uhhh, at INSTANT first thought, the obvious clue for conservatives to like private school - would likely be the ability to include religion is my first guess.
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Old 09-14-2012, 06:35 PM s0me0nesmind1 is offline  
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Uhhh I have never heard republicans advocating that shit - especially given the cost. Buuut uhhh, at INSTANT first thought, the obvious clue for conservatives to like private school - would likely be the ability to include religion is my first guess.

Id link you to some of these blogs and FB posts and whatnot but I'm too lazy right now. Trust me it's there.


Good point about the religion though, forgot about that. Plus I think for a lot of people who debase public education it's a personal vendetta. Just from looking around FB the people who subscribe to that line of thinking never seem to have a university listed.
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:06 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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