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pyramid
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Originally Posted by s0me0nesmind1 View Post
Teachers can grade however - whenever. Your ability to take out a key of a homework and see if A matches the correct answer C isn't hard - it isn't time consuming - it doesn't keep you up till 2 AM unless you wait until the day before report cards are due. And there is 0 leverage for saying you have to grade papers on your own time - most schools are out by 3. Everyone else works till 5 no matter what.

Teachers usually arrive at school long before school starts and they usually stay long after it ends. They don't just breeze in at 8 and out at 3. I used to be at school at around 7 and was regularly there until after 5 until I could drive myself to and from school and didn't have to follow my mothers schedule.

And no, grading homework against an answer key is not very hard. But teachers usually have multiple classes with over 30 kids in them so one homework assignment from one day means going over the same answer key over a hundred times.

Teachers do not have it anywhere near as easy as you think they do.
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Old 09-11-2012, 06:47 PM pyramid is offline  
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Yes, teachers, who are entrusted with educating and protecting children, are vastly overpaid. We should just get any old GED stumblebum willing to work for minimum wage to do that job. I'm sure that will not negatively impact our public education system in any way. In fact, we should be able to turn out more great thinkers like you.

So, once again, if ordinary people collectively bargain for decent pay, benefits and a pension, that is evil anti-capitalist communism that is destroying our nation but if wealthy elites negotiate obscene salaries, cadilac health care plans and giant golden parachutes, that is just good business and companies need to pay those people what they ask or they will take their talent elsewhere.
Those are both false dichotomies, yo.

I think teachers deserve a decent wage, but a family of two teachers shouldn't be making $150k+. That's top 10% of household incomes in the country. There's a lot of people that can teach, it's not all that rare a skill. Remove the protectionist union bullshit from the equation and they could easily find good people to work at a market wage of a lot less than $75k/year much less the 90k they want.

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My mom was a science teacher. She had a BA, two Masters and multiple certifications. She used to spend all that free time she had during winter and spring break grading papers and working on her upcoming lessons and all that free time she had on her summers off she spent getting new certifications or getting re-certified.
I used to be a science teacher, albeit a college one. I would have felt like I was stealing getting $75k and downright criminal at 90k. It was a whole hell of a lot easier work than what I do now. It's not an easy job like someonesretard is making it out to be, but it's not especially demanding. A ten hour day ain't all that in the modern world (sadly). Those salary numbers are on par with the highest paid fields in the country, all the engineering jobs that are in huge demand because there aren't enough of them. There's no shortage of teachers.
Old 09-11-2012, 06:49 PM Gibonius is offline  
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Teachers usually arrive at school long before school starts and they usually stay long after it ends. They don't just breeze in at 8 and out at 3. I used to be at school at around 7 and was regularly there until after 5 until I could drive myself to and from school and didn't have to follow my mothers schedule.

And no, grading homework against an answer key is not very hard. But teachers usually have multiple classes with over 30 kids in them so one homework assignment from one day means going over the same answer key over a hundred times.

Teachers do not have it anywhere near as easy as you think they do.
for every one paper a student has to write, a teacher has to read 30-60 in detail, and grade them all. And thats just for one class, teachers usually teach 5-6 different classes

source: my dad being up till midnight grading shit a lot of nights
Old 09-11-2012, 07:01 PM Forever Domon is offline  
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Those are both false dichotomies, yo.

I think teachers deserve a decent wage, but a family of two teachers shouldn't be making $150k+. That's top 10% of household incomes in the country. There's a lot of people that can teach, it's not all that rare a skill. Remove the protectionist union from the equation and they could easily find good people to work at a market wage of a lot less than $75k/year much less the 90k they want.


I used to be a science teacher, albeit a college one. I would have felt like I was stealing getting $75k and downright criminal at 90k. It was a whole hell of a lot easier work than what I do now. It's not an easy job like someonesretard is making it out to be, but it's not especially demanding. A ten hour day ain't all that in the modern world (sadly). Those salary numbers are on par with the highest paid fields in the country, all the engineering jobs that are in huge demand because there aren't enough of them. There's no shortage of teachers.
did you also have TA's that did all your grading for you?
Old 09-11-2012, 07:01 PM Forever Domon is offline  
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Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
I think teachers deserve a decent wage, but a family of two teachers shouldn't be making $150k+. That's top 10% of household incomes in the country. There's a lot of people that can teach, it's not all that rare a skill. Remove the protectionist union from the equation and they could easily find good people to work at a market wage of a lot less than $75k/year much less the 90k they want.

75k does seem high but I don't know what the cost of living is in Chicago. That could be like 50k a year somewhere else.

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I used to be a science teacher, albeit a college one. I would have felt like I was stealing getting $75k and downright criminal at 90k. It was a whole hell of a lot easier work than what I do now. It's not an easy job like someonesretard is making it out to be, but it's not especially demanding. A ten hour day ain't all that in the modern world (sadly). Those salary numbers are on par with the highest paid fields in the country, all the engineering jobs that are in huge demand because there aren't enough of them. There's no shortage of teachers.
This is true but I wonder if there isn't some Incentivisation needed to get teachers to come teach in inner city chicago.
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Old 09-11-2012, 07:06 PM pyramid is offline  
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75k does seem high but I don't know what the cost of living is in Chicago. That could be like 50k a year somewhere else.



This is true but I wonder if there isn't some Incentivisation needed to get teachers to come teach in inner city chicago.
in the "rural north" my dad with a masters + 20 (which means 20 years of "continued education" which is about a 8 credits a years) and 30 years of work experience making a grand total of a whopping 43k

Cost of living there isnt all that low either. Average house is 220k or so.
Old 09-11-2012, 07:10 PM Forever Domon is offline  
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76k after taxes really isn't much, especially in a big city like chicago.

I live in a more expensive area (DC) and I make less than that and get by fairly easily. 76k is going to be in the low to mid 4000's after taxes; if you can't live off of that you are fucking dumb.
Old 09-11-2012, 07:26 PM Retardedchicken is offline  
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Originally Posted by pyramid View Post
Teachers usually arrive at school long before school starts and they usually stay long after it ends. They don't just breeze in at 8 and out at 3. I used to be at school at around 7 and was regularly there until after 5 until I could drive myself to and from school and didn't have to follow my mothers schedule.

And no, grading homework against an answer key is not very hard. But teachers usually have multiple classes with over 30 kids in them so one homework assignment from one day means going over the same answer key over a hundred times.

Teachers do not have it anywhere near as easy as you think they do.

Quit with the off-topic of how much teachers are worth This is about the union, not how hard their job is. I never once claimed it was 10x easier than other jobs - but I will say it's not harder than your typical job. Especially not a typical job that makes 75k. This is about the union, none of which you have any valid argument - yet you are about 5 posts into this thread.
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Old 09-11-2012, 07:28 PM s0me0nesmind1 is offline  
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75k does seem high but I don't know what the cost of living is in Chicago. That could be like 50k a year somewhere else.



This is true but I wonder if there isn't some Incentivisation needed to get teachers to come teach in inner city chicago.

Unless you live smack dab in the middle of New York City, 76k is more than enough to not only live life - but enjoy it as well.
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Old 09-11-2012, 07:29 PM s0me0nesmind1 is offline  
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Quit with the off-topic of how much teachers are worth This is about the union, not how hard their job is. I never once claimed it was 10x easier than other jobs - but I will say it's not harder than your typical job. Especially not a typical job that makes 75k. This is about the union, none of which you have any valid argument - yet you are about 5 posts into this thread.
stfu, if you didnt want people to say shit defending teachers, you shouldnt have attacked em.

Quote:
-I sure wish I could have recess, lunch, and get off at 3:00.
-It takes little to no skill - and a bachelors degree in what you already learned is nothing of that sort
-You can fuck your students in your free time!
-It would be great to have a "Spring Break" at a moments notice, plus getting the summer off! Heeeey! Fun Shtuff!
Old 09-11-2012, 07:29 PM Forever Domon is offline  
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Unless you live smack dab in the middle of New York City, 76k is more than enough to not only live life - but enjoy it as well.
76k after taxes, absolutely. Thats a good living.

Before taxes, that turns out to be maybe 36k.
Old 09-11-2012, 07:30 PM Forever Domon is offline  
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Please quote where I said the job itself was "easy"


- Everything I mentioned was to show it is a typical job. It's no different than your typical blue collar job - except private sector can get canned at any point - and they don't bitch about their pay and get instant 14% raises
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Old 09-11-2012, 07:32 PM s0me0nesmind1 is offline  
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Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
Those are both false dichotomies, yo.

I think teachers deserve a decent wage, but a family of two teachers shouldn't be making $150k+. That's top 10% of household incomes in the country. There's a lot of people that can teach, it's not all that rare a skill. Remove the protectionist union from the equation and they could easily find good people to work at a market wage of a lot less than $75k/year much less the 90k they want.


I used to be a science teacher, albeit a college one. I would have felt like I was stealing getting $75k and downright criminal at 90k. It was a whole hell of a lot easier work than what I do now. It's not an easy job like someonesretard is making it out to be, but it's not especially demanding. A ten hour day ain't all that in the modern world (sadly). Those salary numbers are on par with the highest paid fields in the country, all the engineering jobs that are in huge demand because there aren't enough of them. There's no shortage of teachers.

I hate giving compliments, but for once you have some sense <3

Teachers aren't a rare skill. Supply + Demand 101. Going out of college I can name 10 girls that had education degrees and were applying for teaching.

I will not shit on Science teaching, however. I could see that being in demand and worthy of more pay. I mean honestly, who goes into science saying "I want to teach it to kids!!" - vs. "I want to make a difference and discover shit"?
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Old 09-11-2012, 07:34 PM s0me0nesmind1 is offline  
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The teachers in Chicago are currently on protest for their wages.

no the fuck they aren't

they are primarily on strike because standardized tests unfairly influence their evaluations
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Old 09-11-2012, 07:44 PM asa is offline  
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no the fuck they aren't

they are primarily on strike because standardized tests unfairly influence their evaluations

As... it... should? It's a direct correlation of your performance. If you showed you were mentoring the student, than that is all you can do. You won't be punished you - Take a look at ANY job other than unionized ones. Your performance ALWAYS influences your evaluation you shitcock. THATS WHAT A JOB IS FOR. Can't handle the job performance? Then it's not for you.
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Old 09-11-2012, 07:50 PM s0me0nesmind1 is offline  
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