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s0me0nesmind1
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VoodoochildBC View Post
But that's exactly the problem; it's a double-edged sword. Who gets to make the decision on whether or not they're up to par and whether or not the person deciding that is competent? Who's the analogous manager here, the principal of the school or the state?

I don't think any normal person would say that teachers shouldn't be evaluated, and should have free reign over their own effectiveness. By the same token I think it's wrong to generalize and say that most/all teachers don't work hard, don't know anything, and are lazy union drones. As you just said, some of the problems kids are having with education these days have to do with our culture and not necessarily the quality of the education.... I think that's what really stirred the pot.

So there in lies the questions:
-No teacher gets fired
-ALL of them are getting a 14% raise - regardless of performance
-All teachers in the union are protesting this
-They don't want to be evaluated at all

Where is the answer? How do you crop out the bad teachers and put in ones that are worthy of a job when you have unions to stand by eachother regardless of their performance? That is what a manager is for. It's to evaluate your performance - and yes, standardized testing should be a factor. No matter what job you are in no manager looks at your numbers after 1 year and says "X people failed, that is over the line - you're fired". It's all about TRENDING DATA. Is your overall performance/scores getting lower year by year by year? Then maybe it is you - it's time to consider other factors. How did those students do in other classes? How did you handle the fact that your kids were failing?

Unions need to be outlawed. This isn't about the protection of your human life/rights as it was created to be. It's about your ability to live the eaaaaaaaaaaaaasy road of life - with overpayment - relaxation - and no worries about if your work is poor.
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Last edited by s0me0nesmind1; 09-11-2012 at 08:35 PM..
Old 09-11-2012, 08:18 PM s0me0nesmind1 is offline  
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asa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s0me0nesmind1 View Post
So there in lies the questions:
-No teacher gets fired
-ALL of them are getting a 14% raise - regardless of performance
-All teachers in the union are protesting this
-They don't want to be evaluated at all

Where is the answer? How do you crop out the bad teachers and put in ones that are worthy of a job when you have unions to stand by eachother regardless of their performance?

Unions need to be outlawed. This isn't about the protection of your life. It's about your ability to live the eaaaaaaaaaaaaasy road of life - with overpayment - relaxation - and no worries about if your work is poor.

who the fuck said they don't want to be evaluated?
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Old 09-11-2012, 08:19 PM asa is offline  
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Redrum
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someone dig up the chart where SAT scores control for socioeconomic status and teh gap still persists


paging samfarber
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Old 09-11-2012, 08:19 PM Redrum is offline  
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s0me0nesmind1
 
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who the fuck said they don't want to be evaluated?

The fucking FACT that there is a union Do you have any idea how many people get fired in a union? 0. Do you know how many deserve to? Thousands.
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Old 09-11-2012, 08:25 PM s0me0nesmind1 is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s0me0nesmind1 View Post
The fucking FACT that there is a union Do you have any idea how many people get fired in a union? 0. Do you know how many deserve to? Thousands.

so basically you're saying that they don't want to be evaluated?

good job
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Old 09-11-2012, 08:32 PM asa is offline  
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did you also have TA's that did all your grading for you?

Decidedly not.
Old 09-11-2012, 08:58 PM Gibonius is offline  
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Gibonius
 
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76k after taxes, absolutely. Thats a good living.

Before taxes, that turns out to be maybe 36k.

The 76k doesn't include benefits either. These guys get pensions, which really changes the math on how far your money goes.
Old 09-11-2012, 09:00 PM Gibonius is offline  
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unions can be abusive, but again i'd rather a union dish out the abuse over a huge multinational corporation fucking everybody else over. do you not realize how quickly things will devolve to china-tier work conditions if unions didn't exist any more?

What's with the false dichotomies in this thread?

Unions are fine (and overall a good force in our society), but this is an overreach. Asking for 30% raises when you already make good money and the country is in a recession is crazytalk. There are too many unions that aren't about "getting a fair deal", they're about "getting whatever the fuck we can get screw management", plus leadership corruption.

Quote:
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also if you want american public schools to not be shit any more all you really have to do is go back to racially segregating the schools again.

seriously.
Or...change the funding system so the vast majority of funding doesn't come from local municipalities. Lots of areas are de facto segregated because of geography anyway.
Old 09-11-2012, 09:03 PM Gibonius is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
What's with the false dichotomies in this thread?

Unions are fine (and overall a good force in our society), but this is an overreach. Asking for 30% raises when you already make good money and the country is in a recession is crazytalk.

who was asking for 30%?

everything i said showed that pay was the closest they got an agreement to, and that was a 14% increase
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:19 PM asa is offline  
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who was asking for 30%?

everything i said showed that pay was the closest they got an agreement to, and that was a 14% increase

They had agreed on 14% and now they want more. I think it was something like 30% if you include increases in benefits.

14% is still nuts.
Old 09-11-2012, 09:23 PM Gibonius is offline  
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asa
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PAY WAS THE CLOSEST THEY GOT AN AGREEMENT TO

the fucking talks dissolved because their demands weren't met anywhere else

14% was the pay increase
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:25 PM asa is offline  
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Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
Or...change the funding system so the vast majority of funding doesn't come from local municipalities. Lots of areas are de facto segregated because of geography anyway.

this, by the way, is an enormous problem in america. everyone i talk to outside the states is always completely shocked with the fact that there isn't such a thing as a federal K12 school program here. and therefore no strictly centralized federal funding for schools either.
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:30 PM teh_rapist is offline  
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[H]ard|On
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneWhoKnows View Post
I'm not going to comment on unions, however:


If that's your opinion on education, you either a) never had a good teacher b) don't value education c) have no idea what you're talking about d) all of the above.

Becoming a teacher may not be the most difficult profession to qualified for, but being a good or great teacher is something that people have to work hard at.

Amen, what a dumb blabbering kunt with no idea

Off at 3:00pm? Hardly. You have to stay behind and talk to the retards, and their parents... Who blame you for their retarded kid not doing all that well in front of the principal. There are constant evaluations, and updated requirements on how to deal with kids who for example have ADD or are Mexican. You have to baby sit wanna be gangsters, lazy fuckers and rebellious dumbasses to make sure they pass the class and not offend anyone at the same time.

Challenging? I'll take university students over middle/high schoolers ANY day. They are there because they want to learn - and pay for it. The normal public school setting is VERY challenging.


This thread fails HARD


Ps. Can we afford to take care of the people who rear our young? If we finally stop bullying Hajis for multiple trillions of dollars as some kind of misguided revenge for 9/11 then yes

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Last edited by [H]ard|On; 09-11-2012 at 11:10 PM..
Old 09-11-2012, 11:01 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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[H]ard|On
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ITT: bellow average IQ poster takes it out on teachers, who never liked him in school (and possibly made fun of him in front of class)
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Old 09-11-2012, 11:02 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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[H]ard|On
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I bet OP's name is Larry




Ps. you mad cause the Raiders sucked a fat one last night huh
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Old 09-11-2012, 11:05 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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