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[H]ard|On
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Pro sports, Brittney Spears and Socialism

How do you guys feel about financial reward for work being tied in with your benefit to society? For instance find a cure for cancer and be mega rich, make a pop hit - sell it online for a few thousand or whatever iTunes will fetch. The way it is now celebrities swim in cash while the people doing cancer research aren't on their own, they work for a corporation which will absorb all profits from any discoveries made by low level researchers and lab rats.

Without an official system in place to rank such things, do you think extra-taxing the mega rich is in a way implementing this since the mega rich tend to be people like Michael Jackson, CEOs, Brittney Spears and various football/soccer/etc players? What are your thoughts on salary caps in pro sports - this is somewhat related to the concept of "fairness" since no one single player on a team can beat the other team alone, but often one or two make more than the rest combined.

I want to see where this goes.
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Old 09-13-2012, 05:41 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Sometimes I think you have the mind of an 8 year old child...and not an 8 year old prodigy.

So in your little scenario everyones salary comes from the same place, (da gubment??) and the size of that salary is dependent on some arbitrary "contribution to society" which is determined by....who?

Look, personally I think people like Britney Spears, Kim K. etc..don't add anything to our society..but then again those types of people don't get my money either. In your little scenario of the cancer researcher...there is nothing stopping an individual from discovering a cure on their own..unless you count the millions it takes to run a lab and all the equipment inside...and pay all the other employees (somebody has to answer the phones, swab the shitters, empty the trash and make sure the bills are paid while Mr. Science is wrapped up in his experiments)

Oh, and I know you don't understand sports (and I personally feel salaries are over the top there as well) but when a single athlete is paid millions a year...it isn't ONLY to help the team win, but sometimes it's more a matter of putting asses in the arena seats and selling jerseys with that players name...and sometimes simply to keep them from going to a competitor and doing the same. In summary...nothing is ever as simplistic as you may think it is.
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Old 09-13-2012, 06:49 PM joemama is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama View Post
Sometimes I think you have the mind of an 8 year old child...and not an 8 year old prodigy.

So in your little scenario everyones salary comes from the same place, (da gubment??) and the size of that salary is dependent on some arbitrary "contribution to society" which is determined by....who?

Look, personally I think people like Britney Spears, Kim K. etc..don't add anything to our society..but then again those types of people don't get my money either. In your little scenario of the cancer researcher...there is nothing stopping an individual from discovering a cure on their own..unless you count the millions it takes to run a lab and all the equipment inside...and pay all the other employees (somebody has to answer the phones, swab the shitters, empty the trash and make sure the bills are paid while Mr. Science is wrapped up in his experiments)

Oh, and I know you don't understand sports (and I personally feel salaries are over the top there as well) but when a single athlete is paid millions a year...it isn't ONLY to help the team win, but sometimes it's more a matter of putting asses in the arena seats and selling jerseys with that players name...and sometimes simply to keep them from going to a competitor and doing the same. In summary...nothing is ever as simplistic as you may think it is.

BOOM ROASTED.
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Old 09-13-2012, 06:53 PM BlisterDick is offline  
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those people are not the mega-rich, they're just the rich
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Old 09-13-2012, 06:56 PM asa is offline  
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[H]ard|On
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama View Post
Sometimes I think you have the mind of an 8 year old child...and not an 8 year old prodigy.

So in your little scenario everyones salary comes from the same place, (da gubment??) and the size of that salary is dependent on some arbitrary "contribution to society" which is determined by....who?

Look, personally I think people like Britney Spears, Kim K. etc..don't add anything to our society..but then again those types of people don't get my money either. In your little scenario of the cancer researcher...there is nothing stopping an individual from discovering a cure on their own..unless you count the millions it takes to run a lab and all the equipment inside...and pay all the other employees (somebody has to answer the phones, swab the shitters, empty the trash and make sure the bills are paid while Mr. Science is wrapped up in his experiments)

Oh, and I know you don't understand sports (and I personally feel salaries are over the top there as well) but when a single athlete is paid millions a year...it isn't ONLY to help the team win, but sometimes it's more a matter of putting asses in the arena seats and selling jerseys with that players name...and sometimes simply to keep them from going to a competitor and doing the same. In summary...nothing is ever as simplistic as you may think it is.


I have a little scenario? Sometimes I think your reading skills are that of an 8 year old. I asked what you thought about the concept.

So you agree that celebrities are overpaid, agree with salary caps, and seemingly understand why someone can't find a cure for cancer on their own... Why am I an 8 year old? And what is so complicated about a top tier tax bracket?
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:32 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlisterDick View Post
BOOM ROASTED.

BOOM he didn't really say anything besides the weak ass 8 year old "insult"

Quote:
Originally Posted by asa View Post
those people are not the mega-rich, they're just the rich

Sure but using celebrities is a fast example of someone who is rich for no real reason. Similar to an overpaid corporate leader who signs off on ideas that maximize profits such as shipping jobs overseas and cutting quality in the name of profit.

The truly mega rich also need to pay their fair share - and more as far as I'm concerned.

Ps. Bill Gates supports the idea of an extra tax for money transfers. It's not just "poor lazy people" for the record, just honest ones. Steve Balmer on the other hand violently opposes such a concept as most rich people would.
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:38 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Quote:
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I have a little scenario? Sometimes I think your reading skills are that of an 8 year old.

So you agree that celebrities are overpaid, agree with salary caps, and seemingly understand why someone can't find a cure for cancer on their own... Way to restate everything without adding your own opinion I guess.

Ps. what is simpler than an increase for a given tax bracket?
I'm the one with poor reading skills? You have a lack of comprehension skills if you think what I wrote in any way reinforces whatever point you were trying to make.

Just because I think some celebrities/prof athletes etc..make more than their actual worth doesn't mean I think they should be "capped" (by who exactly?) or somehow shouldn't be able to make whatever they can get someone to pay..

Those types of people already pay shitloads more in taxes than I do, and if they don't then they end up like Willie Nelson, Wesley Snipes and others who tried to game the system. I fail to see how taking away any incentive for becoming ultra wealthy (by way of wealth redistribution) is going to help anything. Funny how nobody cares what people right out of college making $30k a year does with their money...at $50k still don't care...$100k starting to get interested but meh...$200k starting to gain notice now....$500 ahh yes, getting there....$1mil+ OK NOW WE START TELLING YOU WHAT YOU CAN AND CAN'T DO WITH YOUR MONEY, AND IF YOU HAVE ANY IDEAS ABOUT MAKING MORE THAT'S GREAT.....WE HAVE SOME IDEAS AS WELL MWAAAHAHAHA.
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:54 PM joemama is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama View Post
I'm the one with poor reading skills? You have a lack of comprehension skills if you think what I wrote in any way reinforces whatever point you were trying to make.

Just because I think some celebrities/prof athletes etc..make more than their actual worth doesn't mean I think they should be "capped" (by who exactly?) or somehow shouldn't be able to make whatever they can get someone to pay..

Those types of people already pay shitloads more in taxes than I do, and if they don't then they end up like Willie Nelson, Wesley Snipes and others who tried to game the system. I fail to see how taking away any incentive for becoming ultra wealthy (by way of wealth redistribution) is going to help anything. Funny how nobody cares what people right out of college making $30k a year does with their money...at $50k still don't care...$100k starting to get interested but meh...$200k starting to gain notice now....$500 ahh yes, getting there....$1mil+ OK NOW WE START TELLING YOU WHAT YOU CAN AND CAN'T DO WITH YOUR MONEY, AND IF YOU HAVE ANY IDEAS ABOUT MAKING MORE THAT'S GREAT.....WE HAVE SOME IDEAS AS WELL MWAAAHAHAHA.


So you agree that reward vs. benefit to society is a good concept or not? It sure sounds like you do. Stop asking me about specifics to something that doesn't exist. All I'm saying here is that a progressive tax rate starts to approach that concept - and asking for opinions. You oppose a progressive tax rate then, is that it?

Nobody gives a fuck how you spend your money, one dollar or two million. It's about fairness - you can't help it if retards buy Brittney albums, but we can make sure she helps society in SOME way, which clearly isn't going to be her shitty music.

In essence: If you receive a lot without benefiting society, it's possible to make you help in some other way. Something you have a lot of - money. I can't make it any simpler, so I hope you can finally grasp the concept. "Redistribution of wealth" is a misnomer. It's more like "forced to help around the house since you live in it"
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Old 09-13-2012, 09:09 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Cliffs:

-Brittney makes a ton of money
-She doesn't benefit society
-We can make her contribute and make up for that




People who get a lot of money with no benefit to anyone else should pick up the slack by helping repave roads, buy school equipment and clean up the city.

Voila, they helped society and they are still rich. Guilt free.
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Old 09-13-2012, 09:23 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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Old 09-13-2012, 10:16 PM tegandje is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [H]ard|On View Post
Cliffs:

-Brittney makes a ton of money
-She doesn't benefit society
-We can make her contribute and make up for that




People who get a lot of money with no benefit to anyone else should pick up the slack by helping repave roads, buy school equipment and clean up the city.

Voila, they helped society and they are still rich. Guilt free.

doesn't she?
the money she makes doesn't just fall out of some guy's asshole.
people buy her shit.

in magical money land maybe this works, but in a capitalistic society she only makes as much money as people are willing to spend on her. you might not like someone's song, but someone obviously does or they wouldn't be making money. you might not like an actor, but someone is willing to spend money on seeing their movies. etc.

these people might not contribute anything in your eyes, but we're a society heavily based on entertainment, and clearly its worth a lot of fucking money to a lot of people. your arbitrary contribution system doesn't always have incentives that are appealing to the masses.

if some group determines the wealth that someone deserves based on perceived merit, who the hell is going to pick up my garbage? not only that, but what are those people doing for money while they research their discovers? someone has to back it. is money going to magically get handed out to anyone and everyone who might potentially have a discovery for the perceived benefit of mankind? don't think so.
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Old 09-13-2012, 11:14 PM Xcric is offline  
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Have you heard of progressive taxation?
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Old 09-14-2012, 12:26 AM Straw Man is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcric View Post

if some group determines the wealth that someone deserves based on perceived merit, who the hell is going to pick up my garbage?
I don't think the original post was really about determining wealth to this point.

Michael Jackson was a pretty good example. Certainly the king of pop deserves/deserved wealth but I think by all measures it was pretty ostentatious. Bill Gates is a good example aswell, though as Bill is very good person and probably agrees with some of the sentiments the OP says and spreads the good. Bill deserves to be rich, but I think it's kind of crooked to think that the next thousand people you see in your life and their entire work they do in their entire life (that's 35-40 years a piece) equaling at least 35 thousand years of varied work, is perceived to be less valuable than what Bill does in one year. When counted in pure money alone, that is.

Just by what the OP posted, I guess. Not sure I totally agree with the above (or what I just wrote )
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Old 09-14-2012, 12:35 AM Straw Man is offline  
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