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joemama
Watch Toomer burn those cowboys. How bout them cowboys?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [H]ard|On View Post
Cliffs:

-Brittney makes a ton of money
-She doesn't benefit society
-We can make her contribute and make up for that




People who get a lot of money with no benefit to anyone else should pick up the slack by helping repave roads, buy school equipment and clean up the city.

Voila, they helped society and they are still rich. Guilt free.
Your entire argument is based on the fallacy that entertainers, sports stars etc give nothing back to society....and the fallacy that if the government took a larger chunk of their money away it would be used for whatever you feel is more important.

I agree that Britney Spears is a waste of good oxygen, and just typing the name makes me feel dumber...but that doesn't mean she doesn't contribute more to society (economically) than the average American citizen. Have you considered how many people were employed either directly or indirectly during Britney Spears heyday? Not just people at the record label, but also the throngs of people that are required to take a stage show on worldwide tours....and most of that money was pumped right back into our economy either through taxes or consumer spending. Not to mention worldwide sales of cd's, merchandise and such means most of the money coming back to the country of origin..

Oh, and btw...have you heard of tax brackets? The top earners pay 35% of their income in taxes...which can be a shitload if you're bringing in millions. Would you ever accept 35% apr on a credit card, mortgage, car note..etc? Many "1%ers" pay more in taxes in a single year than most people will ever see in their lifetime...and that's not just directly from their personal bank account, but also from the businesses they own. Raising the top rate to 40, 50, 55, 60% might initially give the government more to play with, but nothing comes without ramifications...and wealth redistribution (I know you hate that word, but it is what it is) is not the answer to all our problems.

If you really want things to be fair, you'll have to reform tax laws and close some legal loopholes that some ultra-wealthy use to avoid paying the full 35%....wasn't that one of the things your boy used in his campaign four years ago?
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Old 09-14-2012, 06:53 AM joemama is offline  
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Redrum
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whoever is capable of stealing the most deserves the most

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Old 09-14-2012, 07:04 AM Redrum is offline  
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K804
 
Jesus, life is not a zero sum game. To say athletes and entertainers contribute nothing to society is BS.

I live in Oklahoma City. Last year Kevin Durant made 17 million dollars to play basketball here for the Thunder. Now 17 million dollars may seem like a ton of money for a guy to make simply for bouncing and shooting a ball, but consider the following. There are approx. 1 million people living in the greater OKC area. Kevin Durant made $17 dollars for every person in OKC. Do you think that the average person in this city got $17 dollars worth of entertainment, joy and civic pride out of watching him play last season? The answer would be HELL YES. Evident by the fact that half the people in this god dang state own a KD jersey. So yes he is contributing more than his worth to our local society, and at the same time the owners of the team are making money, employing people and the populace is incredibly entertained and satisfied. Win, win, win, win.
Old 09-14-2012, 08:08 AM K804 is offline  
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[H]ard|On
tell me i is retarded and i will just potato
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tegandje View Post
The nation needs a lower class.
Large flocks of people who embrace their status as indentured servants can only be good for the country. They are too stupid to realize that they should want more. If you educate everyone and try to improve their quality of life, bad things happen!!!!!!
A legion of concert pianists and only a handful of piano movers.
That don't work son.

We have that

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcric View Post
doesn't she?
the money she makes doesn't just fall out of some guy's asshole.
people buy her shit.

in magical money land maybe this works, but in a capitalistic society she only makes as much money as people are willing to spend on her. you might not like someone's song, but someone obviously does or they wouldn't be making money. you might not like an actor, but someone is willing to spend money on seeing their movies. etc.

these people might not contribute anything in your eyes, but we're a society heavily based on entertainment, and clearly its worth a lot of fucking money to a lot of people. your arbitrary contribution system doesn't always have incentives that are appealing to the masses.

if some group determines the wealth that someone deserves based on perceived merit, who the hell is going to pick up my garbage? not only that, but what are those people doing for money while they research their discovers? someone has to back it. is money going to magically get handed out to anyone and everyone who might potentially have a discovery for the perceived benefit of mankind? don't think so.


How the rich get their money is irrelevant, this thread is about them contributing to society. Garbage will be picked up because they get paid $30/hr - this service is also lot more useful than "Hit me baby one more time"

Society gives you wealth, you give nothing back. Seems right, doesn't it? Oh wait that's feudalism.
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Last edited by [H]ard|On; 09-14-2012 at 03:18 PM..
Old 09-14-2012, 03:10 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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#19  

[H]ard|On
tell me i is retarded and i will just potato
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama View Post
Your entire argument is based on the fallacy that entertainers, sports stars etc give nothing back to society....and the fallacy that if the government took a larger chunk of their money away it would be used for whatever you feel is more important.

I agree that Britney Spears is a waste of good oxygen, and just typing the name makes me feel dumber...but that doesn't mean she doesn't contribute more to society (economically) than the average American citizen. Have you considered how many people were employed either directly or indirectly during Britney Spears heyday? Not just people at the record label, but also the throngs of people that are required to take a stage show on worldwide tours....and most of that money was pumped right back into our economy either through taxes or consumer spending. Not to mention worldwide sales of cd's, merchandise and such means most of the money coming back to the country of origin..

Oh, and btw...have you heard of tax brackets? The top earners pay 35% of their income in taxes...which can be a shitload if you're bringing in millions. Would you ever accept 35% apr on a credit card, mortgage, car note..etc? Many "1%ers" pay more in taxes in a single year than most people will ever see in their lifetime...and that's not just directly from their personal bank account, but also from the businesses they own. Raising the top rate to 40, 50, 55, 60% might initially give the government more to play with, but nothing comes without ramifications...and wealth redistribution (I know you hate that word, but it is what it is) is not the answer to all our problems.

If you really want things to be fair, you'll have to reform tax laws and close some legal loopholes that some ultra-wealthy use to avoid paying the full 35%....wasn't that one of the things your boy used in his campaign four years ago?

Hey at least you finally caught on to what's being discussed, I applaud you.

As far as "many 1%ers" sure there are guys like Bill Gates, but then there are guys like Romney. Who not only violently oppose a progressive tax rate, much less increasing it, but DON'T EVEN PAY THE ONE THAT EXISTS

Now as for governments not using the tax money correctly - THIS HAPPENS AS IT IS. Like the whole war on terror nonsense. The solution is not to lower taxes for the rich while claiming that the government will waste it anyhow, it's to regulate government. That's another issue, although an even more important one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RuHo View Post
Have you heard of progressive taxation?

If you're asking me then this is what this thread is about. I think it's an extremely fair way to allow those that don't contribute to well, contribute. In proportion to what they get from society for themselves.
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Old 09-14-2012, 03:17 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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[H]ard|On
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K804 View Post
Jesus, life is not a zero sum game. To say athletes and entertainers contribute nothing to society is BS.

I live in Oklahoma City. Last year Kevin Durant made 17 million dollars to play basketball here for the Thunder. Now 17 million dollars may seem like a ton of money for a guy to make simply for bouncing and shooting a ball, but consider the following. There are approx. 1 million people living in the greater OKC area. Kevin Durant made $17 dollars for every person in OKC. Do you think that the average person in this city got $17 dollars worth of entertainment, joy and civic pride out of watching him play last season? The answer would be HELL YES. Evident by the fact that half the people in this god dang state own a KD jersey. So yes he is contributing more than his worth to our local society, and at the same time the owners of the team are making money, employing people and the populace is incredibly entertained and satisfied. Win, win, win, win.


Hey I asked, you answered. I see your point but still think that after receiving that much from the people of OKC that man can give a little back. That IS a ton of money for bouncing and shooting a ball, and he alone can't win against another team. Even a bad one. Also whatever jobs exist for the team exists with or without the star player. They don't all get raises when he gets 17 mil. Those court waxers, booth attendants and security guys aren't exactly in the same financial ballpark.

If you think OKC is lucky to have him wait till you guys get better schools, lower crime, cleaner city and all the rest. Being excited about your sport team is a great thing but isn't all there is to life. In fact it's a little discomforting that such things completely take over people's lives, eclipsing real issues - nothing that Huxley did not predict in his now famous book though.

TV turns on - problems go away. It's really no different than drinking or smoking weed. An artificial sense of well being is created. That can be dangerous.


Ps. someone can defend Brittney in the same manner - she came, we sold a record number of soda for a day and she created a couple temporary jobs.... and she shines a ray of light into some poor teenager's life through her music. That's great, really. Now pay your fucking taxes so we can fix the road your touring vans use, or clean up the arena where you played.
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Old 09-14-2012, 03:29 PM [H]ard|On is offline  
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ryantheillest
 
If I had a billion dollars you wouldn't get shit from me, and I would leave it all to my dog in my will. Fuck you, got mine.
Old 09-14-2012, 08:47 PM ryantheillest is offline  
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#22  

astriy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [H]ard|On View Post
Hey I asked, you answered. I see your point but still think that after receiving that much from the people of OKC that man can give a little back. That IS a ton of money for bouncing and shooting a ball, and he alone can't win against another team. Even a bad one. Also whatever jobs exist for the team exists with or without the star player. They don't all get raises when he gets 17 mil. Those court waxers, booth attendants and security guys aren't exactly in the same financial ballpark.

If you think OKC is lucky to have him wait till you guys get better schools, lower crime, cleaner city and all the rest. Being excited about your sport team is a great thing but isn't all there is to life. In fact it's a little discomforting that such things completely take over people's lives, eclipsing real issues - nothing that Huxley did not predict in his now famous book though.

TV turns on - problems go away. It's really no different than drinking or smoking weed. An artificial sense of well being is created. That can be dangerous.


Ps. someone can defend Brittney in the same manner - she came, we sold a record number of soda for a day and she created a couple temporary jobs.... and she shines a ray of light into some poor teenager's life through her music. That's great, really. Now pay your fucking taxes so we can fix the road your touring vans use, or clean up the arena where you played.

Her uselessness aside, she pays a lot more in taxes than someone like Mitt Romney due to the loopholes.
Old 09-18-2012, 08:50 AM astriy is offline  
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#23  

Vote McCain!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [H]ard|On View Post
How do you guys feel about financial reward for work being tied in with your benefit to society? For instance find a cure for cancer and be mega rich, make a pop hit - sell it online for a few thousand or whatever iTunes will fetch. The way it is now celebrities swim in cash while the people doing cancer research aren't on their own, they work for a corporation which will absorb all profits from any discoveries made by low level researchers and lab rats.

You mean Kim K is an overpaid brainless twit whose only skill is posing in jack-off material for brainless teenagers? I don't think anyone here will disagree with you there. As far as research goes, some scientists and their families have become VERY wealthy off of their patents. Researchers at companies usually have to sign an agreement that says all the intellectual property they create/produce is owned by the company. And they do pay very well for these things...

Quote:
Without an official system in place to rank such things, do you think extra-taxing the mega rich is in a way implementing this since the mega rich tend to be people like Michael Jackson, CEOs, Brittney Spears and various football/soccer/etc players? What are your thoughts on salary caps in pro sports - this is somewhat related to the concept of "fairness" since no one single player on a team can beat the other team alone, but often one or two make more than the rest combined.

I want to see where this goes.
You should be less worried about the salaries of the players and more worried about the salaries of the people that pay the players' salaries.
Old 09-18-2012, 10:25 AM Vote McCain! is offline  
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TerraNova
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vote McCain! View Post
You mean Kim K is an overpaid brainless twit whose only skill is posing in jack-off material for brainless teenagers? I don't think anyone here will disagree with you there. As far as research goes, some scientists and their families have become VERY wealthy off of their patents. Researchers at companies usually have to sign an agreement that says all the intellectual property they create/produce is owned by the company. And they do pay very well for these things....

To an extent you are correct, but in the process the companies I work for take the best ideas I have, pay me less than it is truly worth and make a killing selling it at 200 - 400% markup to the consumer.

There's a huge reason things that are military, educational, or research priced are damn expensive. Research supplies and equipment, across the board are AT LEAST 200% more expensive than they should be.
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Old 09-18-2012, 10:37 AM TerraNova is offline  
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#25  

tanner9072
 
can the OP please define "fair" and/or "fairness"
Old 09-19-2012, 09:01 AM tanner9072 is offline  
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#26  

micdayg0
 
Why is an Italian sports car worth more than my entire house and everything I own inside of it?
It's the price index. You may not feel that celebrities and whatnot deserve the amount of money they get paid, but when you consider the sheer amount of people their "work" reaches, there's no way to avoid salaries like that. If they make it to a point where they can reach that many people, then they deserve their share of the revenue generated by them. Otherwise, where else would that money go? To their managers, production companies, etc? Now that's even more unfair since they're reaping all the benefits of the individuals star power while the star get's shafted based on the fact that what they offer is subjectively of little value to society.
Old 09-19-2012, 10:53 AM micdayg0 is offline  
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lollersk8s
HOLY FUCK I AM RETARDED
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tanner9072 View Post
can the OP please define "fair" and/or "fairness"

go to google

type in "define: fairness"
Old 09-27-2012, 05:10 PM lollersk8s is offline  
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#28  

lollersk8s
HOLY FUCK I AM RETARDED
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micdayg0 View Post
Why is an Italian sports car worth more than my entire house and everything I own inside of it?
It's the price index. You may not feel that celebrities and whatnot deserve the amount of money they get paid, but when you consider the sheer amount of people their "work" reaches, there's no way to avoid salaries like that. If they make it to a point where they can reach that many people, then they deserve their share of the revenue generated by them. Otherwise, where else would that money go? To their managers, production companies, etc? Now that's even more unfair since they're reaping all the benefits of the individuals star power while the star get's shafted based on the fact that what they offer is subjectively of little value to society.

Right there is no way to prevent certain people from making money. You're getting the gist of it.

However there is a way to allow them to help the society grow. That is financially. Therefore a tiered progressive tax rate makes sense, with upper echelons having to pay more.

More tax will not influence anything in these people's daily life, simply numbers on paperwork that only their accountant gets to see. Most of these people would never notice if they weren't told about it since the actual lifestyle would be unchanged. It won't make them consider a cheaper car for example, or even selling one of their many houses.
Old 09-27-2012, 05:13 PM lollersk8s is offline  
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#29  

Vote McCain!
Retardism
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerraNova View Post
There's a huge reason things that are military, educational, or research priced are damn expensive. Research supplies and equipment, across the board are AT LEAST 200% more expensive than they should be.

got any numbers to back up that one?
Old 09-28-2012, 01:24 PM Vote McCain! is offline  
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