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Xcric
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The history of all hitherto existing society is one of class snuggles

I want snuggles
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Old 09-21-2012, 05:29 PM Xcric is offline  
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pyramid
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why am i not suprised to see you quoting karl marx

"If anything is certain, it is that I myself am not a Marxist."

-Karl Marx
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Old 09-21-2012, 05:35 PM pyramid is offline  
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The history of all hitherto existing society is one of class snuggles

ALL HAIL GREAT LEADER!

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Old 09-22-2012, 12:28 AM Jack's raging erection is offline  
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And when those ten kids grow up and become tax payers, they will pay for their public school education many times over. That's how public education works.

Really? Property Taxes are about 2k an acre per year where I live and property taxes pay a super huge large majority for the school. It breaks down to about 1,300 a year going to schools per household. (even though it's against state constitution for property taxes to fund schools) and we rule out the lotto because that's a stupid tax

You'd have to pay property taxes for 73.8 years to make up to that 96k point (8k a year for 12 years).
Assuming the average age is 78, and you buy your first house at 24 (2 years after graduating a 4 year college) you'll only property taxes for 54 years. Thus failing the public school system.

Yes I realize state sales tax and income taxes all eventually funnel down to the public schools but you are directly falling about 26k short over the average lifetime of repaying for your edumication.

54x1300=70200 (amount paid directly to school through property taxes over an average lifespan of 78 years owning a house for 54 years (also remember that you don't pay double for 2 people who finished high school and got married))
8000x12=96000 (amount spent per student per year in a school for their entire school career (excluding kindergarten)
96000-70200 = 25800 (amount still owed to school per person through federal and state taxes)
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Last edited by Rancidpunk666; 09-22-2012 at 05:30 AM.. Reason: LOL economics
Old 09-22-2012, 05:20 AM Rancidpunk666 is offline  
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Jehannum
 
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"If anything is certain, it is that I myself am not a Marxist."

-Karl Marx

"I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member."

-Groucho Marx
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Old 09-22-2012, 09:11 AM Jehannum is offline  
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Jehannum
 
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Originally Posted by Rancidpunk666 View Post
Really? Property Taxes are about 2k an acre per year where I live and property taxes pay a super huge large majority for the school. It breaks down to about 1,300 a year going to schools per household. (even though it's against state constitution for property taxes to fund schools) and we rule out the lotto because that's a stupid tax

You'd have to pay property taxes for 73.8 years to make up to that 96k point (8k a year for 12 years).
Assuming the average age is 78, and you buy your first house at 24 (2 years after graduating a 4 year college) you'll only property taxes for 54 years. Thus failing the public school system.

Yes I realize state sales tax and income taxes all eventually funnel down to the public schools but you are directly falling about 26k short over the average lifetime of repaying for your edumication.

54x1300=70200 (amount paid directly to school through property taxes over an average lifespan of 78 years owning a house for 54 years (also remember that you don't pay double for 2 people who finished high school and got married))
8000x12=96000 (amount spent per student per year in a school for their entire school career (excluding kindergarten)
96000-70200 = 25800 (amount still owed to school per person through federal and state taxes)

Property owners without children pay for public education too, because it's better to make a new generation that will eventually grow up to be contributors to society rather than an underclass full of uneducated retards.

I would like you to stop and think about that one for a second, because it sounds an awful lot like you're advocating for only the richest among us being on the receiving end of an education.

Yes, it's socialism, but it's socialism that keeps our society functioning.
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Old 09-22-2012, 09:17 AM Jehannum is offline  
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And when those ten kids grow up and become tax payers, they will pay for their public school education many times over.


You......you actually believe that, don't you?
Old 09-22-2012, 09:54 AM topcat989 is offline  
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Originally Posted by Rancidpunk666 View Post
Really? Property Taxes are about 2k an acre per year where I live and property taxes pay a super huge large majority for the school. It breaks down to about 1,300 a year going to schools per household. (even though it's against state constitution for property taxes to fund schools) and we rule out the lotto because that's a stupid tax

You'd have to pay property taxes for 73.8 years to make up to that 96k point (8k a year for 12 years).
Assuming the average age is 78, and you buy your first house at 24 (2 years after graduating a 4 year college) you'll only property taxes for 54 years. Thus failing the public school system.

Yes I realize state sales tax and income taxes all eventually funnel down to the public schools but you are directly falling about 26k short over the average lifetime of repaying for your edumication.

54x1300=70200 (amount paid directly to school through property taxes over an average lifespan of 78 years owning a house for 54 years (also remember that you don't pay double for 2 people who finished high school and got married))
8000x12=96000 (amount spent per student per year in a school for their entire school career (excluding kindergarten)
96000-70200 = 25800 (amount still owed to school per person through federal and state taxes)

$50k income x 15% federal taxes x 50 years = $375,000
$50k income x 5% state taxes x 50 years = $125,000

$30k income x 10% federal taxes x 20 years = $60,000
$30k income x 5% state taxes x 20 years = $30,000
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Old 09-22-2012, 12:11 PM pyramid is offline  
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DarkHelmet
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You're all entitled peices of shit.

I've lived on 400 a month when I was kicked out of my house at 17. I've succeeded against the odds, and my success is my own.

What audacity to think you're entitled to my money because I have more than you. if I have to pay 30% of my income to the feds every year, why do you think paying 10% of what you make is fair?

This is not counting all the stupid fees and local property taxes I pay every year to local governments, or the 15% for SSI/medicare, which old people get having squandered the money they invested but still feel entitled to my money.
Old 09-22-2012, 01:26 PM DarkHelmet is offline  
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You're all entitled peices of shit.

I've lived on 400 a month when I was kicked out of my house at 17. I've succeeded against the odds, and my success is my own.

So you were homeschooled? You live in the woods with no roads, electricity, sewer or phone service? You get paid in chickens and beaver pelts?

Quote:
What audacity to think you're entitled to my money because I have more than you. if I have to pay 30% of my income to the feds every year, why do you think paying 10% of what you make is fair?


Well, if you are paying 30%, you are probably making around half a million dollars. Congrats on being in the 1%.

Someone paying 10% is probably making closer to 25k-30k. That puts them outside the income range for collecting welfare, government assistance and even EITC so they aren't getting your money. Do you think someone making 30k a year should be paying 30% / $9000 a year in federal income taxes? Would that make you feel better about making over ten times as much as they do?

Quote:
This is not counting all the stupid fees and local property taxes I pay every year to local governments, or the 15% for SSI/medicare, which old people get having squandered the money they invested but still feel entitled to my money.
Welcome to the party pal. Everyone pays into the system. Not everyone takes home six figures. Those lazy old people on SSI/medicare paid into the system for decades, that's why they are "entitled" to those benefits.

But please do cry some more about how awful it is to make lots of money. I love hearing the well off complain about how bad they have it.
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Old 09-22-2012, 01:55 PM pyramid is offline  
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DarkHelmet
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So you were homeschooled? You live in the woods with no roads, electricity, sewer or phone service? You get paid in chickens and beaver pelts?

wow, that's all shit paid 90% out of local taxes. The education I received from the government monopoly school system sucked and was a horrid value for the 10k per year they squandered per pupil. This tax system is punitive against those that want to sent their kids to a private school, as they need to pay for school twice. To say nothing of the people that have no kids in school who get no value out of the system.

Why do you think your neighbor should help pay for your kids education at the shit public schools? (a day jail for children in most areas)

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Originally Posted by pyramid View Post



Well, if you are paying 30%, you are probably making around half a million dollars. Congrats on being in the 1%.

Someone paying 10% is probably making closer to 25k-30k. That puts them outside the income range for collecting welfare, government assistance and even EITC so they aren't getting your money. Do you think someone making 30k a year should be paying 30% / $9000 a year in federal income taxes? Would that make you feel better about making over ten times as much as they do?

You're not even close. I'm paying about 30% plus ~16k in SSI per year.

I'm saying we need to eliminate income tax (it's a direct attack on earned capital), but if we can' everyone should pay the same amount, from any income. The problem is if you own a business, you can take a lot in and spend a lot with out paying tax on it as a business expense. The guy working for you can't do that, and it's not fair.

If we can't do this either, we need to have a percentage based tax, there is no reason anyone should be paying 30%.

If you make 30k you pay 3k, if you make 300k you pay 30k, what's the problem with this?

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Originally Posted by pyramid View Post


Welcome to the party pal. Everyone pays into the system. Not everyone takes home six figures. Those lazy old people on SSI/medicare paid into the system for decades, that's why they are "entitled" to those benefits.

But please do cry some more about how awful it is to make lots of money. I love hearing the well off complain about how bad they have it.

ok, first, it's my money, not yours. The reason you're poor is you don't want to work for it, or have made bad decisions. I can't count how many girls I met with a MASTERS in education making 30k a year teaching music to 2nd graders.

You're wrong, the money they paid into the system was not invested, it was spent as it came it. It's not there, it's a government mandated ponzi scheme, and just as when a ponzi scheme collapses IRL, the people who withdrew more than they "invested" are subject to claw back of any gains. Sure they need to be pissed, but putting a gun to my head telling me I should pay for them cuz they got fucked over is wrong.
Old 09-22-2012, 02:58 PM DarkHelmet is offline  
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5ive
 
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You're all entitled peices of shit.

I've lived on 400 a month when I was kicked out of my house at 17. I've succeeded against the odds, and my success is my own.

What audacity to think you're entitled to my money because I have more than you. if I have to pay 30% of my income to the feds every year, why do you think paying 10% of what you make is fair?

This is not counting all the stupid fees and local property taxes I pay every year to local governments, or the 15% for SSI/medicare, which old people get having squandered the money they invested but still feel entitled to my money.

I can't tell if you're trolling or what

edit: I'm going to assume you're trolling for the sake of my own sanity
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Old 09-22-2012, 03:19 PM 5ive is offline  
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wow, that's all shit paid 90% out of local taxes. The education I received from the government monopoly school system sucked and was a horrid value for the 10k per year they squandered per pupil.
You seem to have benefited from that 10k per year which was spent on you.

Quote:
This tax system is punitive against those that want to sent their kids to a private school, as they need to pay for school twice.
Good thing they can afford it.

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To say nothing of the people that have no kids in school who get no value out of the system.
They get educated workers and consumers with money to spend.

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Why do you think your neighbor should help pay for your kids education at the shit public schools?
Because that's how taxes work. You have to pay them whether you like what they are spent on or not. You don't have a line item veto to decide where your money goes. You choose where to live and pay the applicable taxes to support the community.

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You're not even close. I'm paying about 30% plus ~16k in SSI per year.
We were just talking income tax.

The guy making 30k a year is paying 13% of his income to SSI/medicare too. You actually pay less as a percentage of income on SSI than he does because your SSI contributions stop at 110k.

Quote:
I'm saying we need to eliminate income tax (it's a direct attack on earned capital), but if we can' everyone should pay the same amount, from any income.
If we go to a flat tax it isn't going to be 10% because a 10% flat tax will not pay our bills. It will be closer to 25%. And because that would be a burden on poor people, there would still be a cutoff point below which people wouldn't pay.

Flat taxes are stupid and don't solve anything. We have a progressive tax because the more money you have the less utility it has.

Quote:
The problem is if you own a business, you can take a lot in and spend a lot with out paying tax on it as a business expense.
Yes, in business you only pay tax on profit, not all revenue. But you also have to keep records of all of this.

Quote:
The guy working for you can't do that, and it's not fair.
So we should only tax people on the income they don't spend? Yeah, that sounds workable. People don't keep records of every cent they spend. Also, everyone below 50-75K or so in income would likely suddenly become a "non-profit" and pay zero in taxes.

Quote:
If we can't do this either, we need to have a percentage based tax, there is no reason anyone should be paying 30%.

If you make 30k you pay 3k, if you make 300k you pay 30k, what's the problem with this?
So you think that people making 300k a year need a 60% tax cut (from 25% down to 10%)? And you believe that will magically pay our bills and solve our debt and deficits?

Quote:
ok, first, it's my money, not yours. The reason you're poor is you don't want to work for it, or have made bad decisions. I can't count how many girls I met with a MASTERS in education making 30k a year teaching music to 2nd graders.
So an educated person who only makes 30k a year teaching children is a leech on society in your mind? They should all just run out and get six figure salaries, because that is totally possible?

Quote:
You're wrong, the money they paid into the system was not invested, it was spent as it came it. It's not there, it's a government mandated ponzi scheme, and just as when a ponzi scheme collapses IRL, the people who withdrew more than they "invested" are subject to claw back of any gains. Sure they need to be pissed, but putting a gun to my head telling me I should pay for them cuz they got fucked over is wrong.
Look, from your brief story I'm guessing you don't have any parents who you consider dependents but consider this for a minute. Consider having to pay for housing, food and medical bills out of your own pocket for your aging parents. Do you think that would cost you more or less than the ~16k a year you pay into SSI/medicare?

Now consider this. Do you see a lot of old people dying of starvation and treatable conditions on the street? Do you know why you don't see that? Because of SSI and medicare. Before these became a real thing, people would get old, get laid off because they were too old, and then ended up losing everything and spending their "retirement" either begging to survive or becoming a burden on their children.

No that money was not invested, and any excess the system generated was stolen by greedy politicians looking to hide their deficit spending long ago. But the system is not going away just yet.
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Last edited by pyramid; 09-22-2012 at 04:32 PM..
Old 09-22-2012, 03:48 PM pyramid is offline  
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Jehannum
 
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Originally Posted by DarkHelmet View Post
You're all entitled peices of shit.

I've lived on 400 a month when I was kicked out of my house at 17. I've succeeded against the odds, and my success is my own.

Sounds like you managed to make the most of your public education. I wonder how well off you'd be if someone like you had been in charge of the purse strings during your formative years.

Quote:
What audacity to think you're entitled to my money because I have more than you. if I have to pay 30% of my income to the feds every year, why do you think paying 10% of what you make is fair?
Because your excess above a living wage is much greater than someone worse off than you. I don't complain about that, because I recognize that it's my civic duty as a high earner to help those less fortunate (or motivated than me, the cause really isn't material) than I am.

Quote:
This is not counting all the stupid fees and local property taxes I pay every year to local governments, or the 15% for SSI/medicare, which old people get having squandered the money they invested but still feel entitled to my money.
Much like public schools, I'll be willing to bet that you'll feel quite different on the receiving end.
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Old 09-22-2012, 04:23 PM Jehannum is offline  
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TUT RAGE!!!
 
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So you were homeschooled? You live in the woods with no roads, electricity, sewer or phone service? You get paid in chickens and beaver pelts?





Well, if you are paying 30%, you are probably making around half a million dollars. Congrats on being in the 1%.

Someone paying 10% is probably making closer to 25k-30k. That puts them outside the income range for collecting welfare, government assistance and even EITC so they aren't getting your money. Do you think someone making 30k a year should be paying 30% / $9000 a year in federal income taxes? Would that make you feel better about making over ten times as much as they do?



Welcome to the party pal. Everyone pays into the system. Not everyone takes home six figures. Those lazy old people on SSI/medicare paid into the system for decades, that's why they are "entitled" to those benefits.

But please do cry some more about how awful it is to make lots of money. I love hearing the well off complain about how bad they have it.

Hey i wouldn't mind getting paid with Zaxby's chicken and bacon.
Also, what state has the lowest tax rate? I can change this shit, fuck NY i know is one of the highest, fuck outta here with this shit.
Old 09-22-2012, 04:31 PM TUT RAGE!!! is offline  
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