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pyramid
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Originally Posted by cc88 View Post
he had a choice to enlist, however, once in iraq, he didnt have a choice on whether or not to murder people you stupid fucks

that story about him getting his first confirmed kill by shooting a fat man in front of the fat mans friends and family doesn't sound like a combat situation to me. it sounds like he just shot some random dude he saw walking down a street. are you suggesting he was under orders to just shoot random civilians.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:35 PM pyramid is offline  
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pyramid
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Originally Posted by Caelum View Post
This should make you glad you didn't enlist
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1817484.html
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...mism/?page=all
+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Napalatino who may be the AG soon views all returning vets as more susceptible to becoming terrorists and here we have a Marine who was detained by the secret service and FBI without charge just for exercising his right to free speech. Sort of like that Muslim who was arrested for making that film when its now evident the film he made had nothing to do with the attacks but he sure did make a good scapegoat for this administration watching Americans be murdered and not only not doing anything about it, but ordering people NOT to do anything about it.

Napolitano didn't say shit, the DHS report did. The DHS report which was commissioned by the Bush administration. And there were many other reports before that one, several released during the Bush administration, which came to the same conclusion.



http://www.splcenter.org/get-informe...-and-extremism

The guy who made that anti-muslim video was a coptic christian. He was arrested for violating his parole. The video was related to the attack in that the protests about the video gave cover for the attack. The administration did not do nothing. The president didn't order anyone to stand down. You need to stop living in a fox news bubble. This shit has been debunked.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/natio...ttack-20121102
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ower/?page=all

Libya is pro american after the overthrow of gaddafi. There has been much fighting there since. Every time the minority pro-gaddafi militias would attack something, they would get attacked back by everyone else. In light of this, attacking the US embassy outright would be a mistake because they would have immediately come under counter attack by other libyans. In fact this did happen during the attacks but it had been overlooked with all the retarded cover up talk. 10 libyans were killed fighting to save the americans. and after the attacks were over, the libyans themselves went and attacked the pro-gaddafi base thinking that it was them who were responsible for the original attack. Then when they found out about the group who took responsibility for the attacks, they attacked them too.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012...n-army-militia
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...190_story.html

So, say you are a terrorist group in pro-american Libya and you want to attack the american embassy but you know you will come under immediate counter attack... what do you do? Do you think maybe when you wake up one morning and there are mass protests at american embassies throughout the region, including the local one in Benghazi, that maybe that is your cue to attack the Americans now when you have a distraction/cover and maybe try to ride that wave of anti-Americanism? Hmm, maybe?
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Last edited by pyramid; 11-09-2012 at 07:13 PM..
Old 11-09-2012, 03:02 PM pyramid is offline  
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If the things he did were contrary to the orders of his superiors and contrary to what was expected by his fellow soldiers, why wasn't he arrested, charged and kicked out of the Marines?
Old 11-09-2012, 04:53 PM pojke is offline  
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Straw Man
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If the things he did were contrary to the orders of his superiors and contrary to what was expected by his fellow soldiers, why wasn't he arrested, charged and kicked out of the Marines?
are you serious

the united states frequently ignores such things (infact its the rule and not the exception) and turns a blind eye to civilian murders committed by domesticated animals overseas, and infact if you cover these atrocities up you'll even get rewarded if you do really well
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:04 PM Straw Man is offline  
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I think it's pointless to deny there are horrible things going on during any war. A lot of people forget that just because it's "the modern era" the essential basics of war don't change. Video like this one help open our eyes. I don't want to think of him as a typical marine, but he does represent a chunk of them. Just think back to the first deployments and interviews with the newly enlisted - "Ima kick some Iraqi ASS - yea! can't wait for my first kill!"

We need less war. There are parts of it that will never change. You can't really have a surgical war that only hurts those who deserve it.
Old 11-09-2012, 08:32 PM lollersk8s is offline  
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Originally Posted by pojke View Post
If the things he did were contrary to the orders of his superiors and contrary to what was expected by his fellow soldiers, why wasn't he arrested, charged and kicked out of the Marines?

Because this is not America but a lawless country. I object to even having a CIA or "agency" for that matter where due process is denied (consider CPS.) A righteious nation would not have to have to have secrets, ideally.
Old 11-09-2012, 09:09 PM SamFarber is offline  
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Napolitano didn't say shit, the DHS report did. The DHS report which was commissioned by the Bush administration. And there were many other reports before that one, several released during the Bush administration, which came to the same conclusion.
...

So, say you are a terrorist group in pro-american Libya and you want to attack the american embassy but you know you will come under immediate counter attack... what do you do? Do you think maybe when you wake up one morning and there are mass protests at american embassies throughout the region, including the local one in Benghazi, that maybe that is your cue to attack the Americans now when you have a distraction/cover and maybe try to ride that wave of anti-Americanism? Hmm, maybe?

Umm...she endorsed it. You're a boss of some sort I assume and I'm sure if your workers do something and you put your name on it, it becomes yours. I work at an engineering firm and if I do something an engineer will look over it pretty fucking thoroughly before he puts his stamp on it. It came from me but he is endorsing it and he is then responsible for it.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...mism/?page=all
The report came from her department and she endorsed it. Not only endorsed it but defended it then explained the reasoning behind it. Look at the date on that article. Thursday April 16, 2009. She said it so much and it became such a stir that she had to actually meet with the American Legion to formally apologize
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_191326.html
April 24, 2009


Quote:
When Stevens finished his final meeting of the day, he escorted a Turkish diplomat outside the main ent.rance of the building. The situation was calm, the officials said, and there were no protests. Five U.S. agents and four local militiamen were providing security.
A little more than an hour later, around 9:40 p.m., everything changed.
http://news.yahoo.com/state-dept-rev...062900114.html
So these guys planned a 100 man coordinated terrorist attack in under an hour? REALLY? How can you be that naive? You're a smart man... WTF? The president of Lybia even said it was not because of the video. Because as you said Lybia is pro America.

Here is the House Oversight Committee.
+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.

Watch it. I know, its an hour, but it tells a damning tale. There were no protests and there were many many reports saying there was some shit going to go down. "The video" is a total scapegoat for the events that went down. And now Gen Patreaus is conveniently resigning and doesn't have to go before the committee again to testify. How convenient.

General Ham was ready to go after receiving calls for help from Benghazi. He received orders to stand down and said fuck that and was preparing SF teams to go in. He was relieved of command of africom because he was going to save American's lives because either the State Department of big O not only refused to act, ordered them NOT to attack.

Benghazi is a 100% betrayal. Sovereign US soil was attacked by a terrorist group and this administration ordered those willing to go into harms way to help NOT to help. Then lied about it, lied to America. Hillary Clinton even went before the UN and aided in drafted the resolution to make a law forbidding the insulting of Mohammad to kind of further this lie. "We really want to convince people of this lie so lets go and help make a law that says we can have free speech, unless of course its offensive to muslims"
Yes that film maker was CONVICTED for violating parole. He was arrested over this video.

No fox news? Ok, how about Forbes. Or shit..look above. How about the fucking House of Representatives?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybel...-up-to-reason/
Old 11-09-2012, 10:19 PM Caelum is offline  
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Of course she endorsed it, because it was correct and true. The only reason it was removed was because of political pressure. yes, look at the date... April 2009. The Obama administration only took office in Jan 2009 which is when she was appointed. The report was commissioned by the Bush administration. She was just reporting the results.

The attack was NOT because of the video and could have been planned well in advance. I never said it was because of the video, I said the protests provided cover.

Yes, it's easy to add shit up in hindsight. especially when you are darrel issa and you are trying to score political points before the fucking investigation into what happened has even finished.

General Ham didn't have shit to send in, which you would know if you read my articles. AFCOM doesn't have shit in the way of assets. Also, General Ham is still the commander of AFCOM. The SF troops had to be called in from Europe and by the time they were ready to deploy the shit was over. Which you would also know if you read my article.

The only assets that were available to do anything who weren't doing anything were some F-16s and they weren't used because they didn't know exactly what was happening or where to bomb in a dense urban area. What were they supposed to do? just start bombing random shit and hope everything turned out OK?

The drones weren't even on scene until the last hour of the attack.

That Forbes article is an OP ED.

Hillary Clinton had no part in the drafting of anything forbidding free speech.

Yes, the film maker was arrested for the video. He was on parole for felony bank fraud and as such he was not allowed to use the internet. Uploading a video which results in worldwide media attention and many deaths is using the internet. Amazingly, he got caught.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:45 PM pyramid is offline  
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are you serious
the united states frequently ignores such things (infact its the rule and not the exception) and turns a blind eye to civilian murders committed by domesticated animals overseas, and infact if you cover these atrocities up you'll even get rewarded if you do really well
I was seriously making a point to people who were narrowly limiting their attacks to the ex-Marine, calling him names, etc. as if he alone had committed horrible acts. If that version is true, if the people above and around him weren't approving it, why wasn't he arrested, charged, and kicked out?

When people start getting all righteous about criticizing a whistleblower my immediate suspicion is that they just don't like what he's telling. I don't buy that their outrage is about what a bad guy he is.
Old 11-10-2012, 12:25 AM pojke is offline  
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mikeawesome1
 
killing civilians builds character
Old 11-10-2012, 12:39 AM mikeawesome1 is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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What a fucking pathetic jerkoff.


So it would seem he is just a violent, undisciplined piece of reactionary dogshit and now we're supposed to feel sorry for him because he supposedly grew a conscience? He needs a little help to sleep at night or not be disgusted with himself when he looks in the mirror? Throwing his medals will make him feel better? What a fucking punk-ass!

Fuck him. He's a piece of shit.

Though obviously a lot of details are missing, incomplete or flat out lies (else he would and/or should be charged with murder). it's pitiful that he seems to want some sympathy for having been such a total fuckup. Any war crimes he committed are his and his alone. The implied narrative is that war is bad, blah blah blah... what a fucking cop out for a huge pussy. He apparently is admitting to being a murderer, but I guess we're supposed to think it's systemic or somehow the result of him being a part of the war that made this poor kid do such horrible (and illegal) things against his better judgment... yeah, right.

I love how this idiot got a FUCK YOU in arabic tat on his "choking hand" half a month before he even went to the war. This shithead wants to throw ribbons and medals now? What a fucking douche

A psychopath getting the power of life and death over others in a culture that celebrates war and idolizes soldiers is also an "implied narrative". You can find plenty of other stories like his about how the military mostly didn't give a shit if the odd civilian or "suspicious persons" were killed unless it was clearly documentable by outside sources or taken to some extreme like that one unit collecting body parts in Afghanistan.

If he has the lucidity to realize the monsterous nature of his actions and former beliefs in a society that shuns and hates the "anti US" or unpatriotic citizens then he should be applauded as far as that goes. You seem to hate him mostly because he makes the military look bad.
Old 11-10-2012, 01:07 AM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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Originally Posted by cc88 View Post
he had a choice to enlist, however, once in iraq, he didnt have a choice on whether or not to murder people you stupid fucks

Like any soldier he could have stopped and refused to fight at any time. It's just "easier" to continue killing people than it is to go to prison.
Old 11-10-2012, 01:09 AM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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Patriotic Eagle
 
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And the bottom line is you're trained to fight win and kill in the Army and the Marine Corps. You're not trained to murder.

Well, when you put it like that
Old 11-10-2012, 01:11 AM Patriotic Eagle is offline  
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#28  

Straw Man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pojke View Post
I was seriously making a point to people who were narrowly limiting their attacks to the ex-Marine, calling him names, etc. as if he alone had committed horrible acts. If that version is true, if the people above and around him weren't approving it, why wasn't he arrested, charged, and kicked out?
As said,
Quote:
When people start getting all righteous about criticizing a whistleblower my immediate suspicion is that they just don't like what he's telling. I don't buy that their outrage is about what a bad guy he is.
Probably both I guess...
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Old 11-10-2012, 04:04 AM Straw Man is offline  
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Straw Man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriotic Eagle View Post
A psychopath getting the power of life and death over others in a culture that celebrates war and idolizes soldiers is also an "implied narrative". You can find plenty of other stories like his about how the military mostly didn't give a shit if the odd civilian or "suspicious persons" were killed unless it was clearly documentable by outside sources or taken to some extreme like that one unit collecting body parts in Afghanistan.

If he has the lucidity to realize the monsterous nature of his actions and former beliefs in a society that shuns and hates the "anti US" or unpatriotic citizens then he should be applauded as far as that goes. You seem to hate him mostly because he makes the military look bad.

But it was just a single occurance of a single guy singling his own singleness in his singulariry. It's by no means nothing else, no sir.

*ignores hundreds of similar testimonies from Iraq*
*ignores hundreds of similar testimonies from Afghanistan*
*ignores hundreds of similar testimonies from Vietnam*
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Old 11-10-2012, 04:08 AM Straw Man is offline  
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