General [M]ayhem

Go Back   General [M]ayhem > Real Time Sub-Forums > The Pit
Register Members List Mark Forums Read [M]erchandise Calendar

Reply
 
Thread Tools
lollersk8s
HOLY FUCK I AM RETARDED
 
lollersk8s's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dio View Post
I think this will have to be expanded to include all potential synonyms of 'plan', (i.e. )

The point I am getting at here is, politicians create assertions, and then forego proper scientific investigative procedure before declaring such things as true.

Everyone arguing "I Think" "I Think" "I have a plan" "The objective" whatever and whatever, as though them winning a given argument will actually validate any supposed assertion 'true'.

We have proper investigative procedure to deduce whether or not something is true, why is this procedure not being followed, and proper testing grounds set up to follow it? Why is it that the supposed truth of some politicians 'Hypothesis' is dependent purely on his ability to argue it on stage?

I can only assume it's because they don't realize what they are really arguing is a 'hypothesis' that needs proper testing before declaring it as true. They think just their ability to argue it as true is going to make it true.

This is why I proprose, whenever arguing politics with someone and they use the word 'plan' or a synonym of it, simply point out that what they are really postulating is a hypothesis, and then re-explain to them the scientific method.

This is a long way of saying politicians are full of shit.

Normal smart people are good at detecting

Others fall victim to lies. We have a lot of these others.
Old 12-10-2012, 02:37 AM lollersk8s is offline  
Reply With Quote
#16  

Advertisement [Remove Advertisement]

lollersk8s
HOLY FUCK I AM RETARDED
 
lollersk8s's Avatar
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocrat

also none of this is a new idea
Old 12-10-2012, 03:36 AM lollersk8s is offline  
Reply With Quote
#17  

dio
 
dio's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lollersk8s View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocrat

also none of this is a new idea

I would admit I have only a handful of truly novel thoughts. Most of them are different explanations of the same thing. But this is case for mostly everything, very little of anything is a completely novel idea. Most things are refinements of past ideas, or updates of past ideas in new terminology.

However I would like to point out that instead of arguing full assertions, but rather identifying a handful of select keywords to change, assuming it will have a resulting domino effect in a persons philosophical presumptions, I think is rather novel. Marshal Mcluhan sort of bumped up against this notion, but never explicitly stated, or attempted to argue that just the rearrangement of a dozen or so words could completely correct our cultural operating system.

Robert Anton Wilson bumped up on this notion a little more in his concept of English Prime, but English Prime only covers the conventions of 'isness'. Although you could say what I am postulating is an extension of English Prime.

You could say I am arguing for a technocracy, but really I am more pondering about potential avenues by which you can get ideas into peoples head through non-traditional means.

Last edited by dio; 12-10-2012 at 07:18 PM..
Old 12-10-2012, 07:12 PM dio is offline  
Reply With Quote
#18  

dio
 
dio's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lollersk8s View Post
This is a long way of saying politicians are full of shit.

Normal smart people are good at detecting

Others fall victim to lies. We have a lot of these others.

Essentially yes.

But the problem is that the majority of people aren't normal smart people.
Old 12-10-2012, 07:21 PM dio is offline  
Reply With Quote
#19  

Jehannum
 
Jehannum's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dio View Post
I would admit I have only a handful of truly novel thoughts.

Only for values of "hand" that are very, very small.
__________________
Your powers are useless! I'm wearing my tin foil underwear!

1992 300ZX: Not stock, 433 RWHP
1971 240Z: Toyota front brakes, 123 RWHP
1967 Pontiac GTO: not stock.
Old 12-11-2012, 05:46 AM Jehannum is offline  
Reply With Quote
#20  

dio
 
dio's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jehannum View Post
Only for values of "hand" that are very, very small.

I can think of 6 truly novel thoughts off the top of my head that I thought up that no one else has thought of.

- Method and interrelation of third eye vision to controlling cellular biological division
- The context for the awakening inherent intelligence in sillicone created by the cross referencing of frameworks of concioussness spawned from Native American Aminism and the concept of the Buddhist Clear Light.
- The way the usage of LCD screens and GPU's can be used to finish the Great Work, the process of techniques to liberate all humanity as outlined by the occult master magickians around the turn of the century. Albeit this lineage of thought is not new, for example Steve Jobs made the entire Apple computer brand symbolic of 'taking a bite out of the fruit of knowledge' as a homage to this lineage of thought, but I have come up with new ideas to continue it, that I haven't heard anyone else talk about.
- Interrelation of context of the growing earth to potential new forms of generating electricity, and a few potential experimental processes that could help hone in on how to create this invention.
- The chakra's interrelation to cymatics in third eye visions, and how the human body ultimately forms out of this process. Some components of this has been illustrated in visionary artwork, but I haven't seen many people translate it to words.
- Magick, and yogic techniques as essentially precise control of placebo effect. (This has been stated in many ways, but no one has taken the time to piggyback it onto the positive effects of placebo effect as a potential route of action for the purposes of grounding it's potential through an avenue that mainstream medical science recognizes in a positive context)

Theres more, but I can't quite conjure them up off the top of my head.

Whether or not those thoughts are considered absurd by you, I would like you to consider, how many people in their entire life ever get one single truly novel thought that no one has ever thought of?

Also consider for a moment that all truly novel thoughts, upon first conception, will rest in the territory of the psyche that culture labels 'psychotic' or 'absurd'... because if the thought is not 'that far out' it means someone else would of already thought of it. For most people, thoughts or ideas gain validity by the amount of people who have repeated those thoughts, because most people don't have enough of a logical capacity to evaluate things on their own, so they rely on how many times they have heard it repeated. So by this very nature, the first person to think up a truly novel thought will be considered nuts because they are the first to say it, no one else has repeated it.

Last edited by dio; 12-11-2012 at 09:28 AM..
Old 12-11-2012, 09:20 AM dio is offline  
Reply With Quote
#21  

Xcric
i have 3 girlfriends but they dont know it yet
 
Xcric's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dio View Post
I can think of 6 truly novel thoughts off the top of my head that I thought up that no one else has thought of.

- Method and interrelation of third eye vision to controlling cellular biological division
- The context for the awakening inherent intelligence in sillicone created by the cross referencing of frameworks of concioussness spawned from Native American Aminism and the concept of the Buddhist Clear Light.
- The way the usage of LCD screens and GPU's can be used to finish the Great Work, the process of techniques to liberate all humanity as outlined by the occult master magickians around the turn of the century. Albeit this lineage of thought is not new, for example Steve Jobs made the entire Apple computer brand symbolic of 'taking a bite out of the fruit of knowledge' as a homage to this lineage of thought, but I have come up with new ideas to continue it, that I haven't heard anyone else talk about.
- Interrelation of context of the growing earth to potential new forms of generating electricity, and a few potential experimental processes that could help hone in on how to create this invention.
- The chakra's interrelation to cymatics in third eye visions, and how the human body ultimately forms out of this process. Some components of this has been illustrated in visionary artwork, but I haven't seen many people translate it to words.
- Magick, and yogic techniques as essentially precise control of placebo effect. (This has been stated in many ways, but no one has taken the time to piggyback it onto the positive effects of placebo effect as a potential route of action for the purposes of grounding it's potential through an avenue that mainstream medical science recognizes in a positive context)

Theres more, but I can't quite conjure them up off the top of my head.

Whether or not those thoughts are considered absurd by you, I would like you to consider, how many people in their entire life ever get one single truly novel thought that no one has ever thought of?

Also consider for a moment that all truly novel thoughts, upon first conception, will rest in the territory of the psyche that culture labels 'psychotic' or 'absurd'... because if the thought is not 'that far out' it means someone else would of already thought of it. For most people, thoughts or ideas gain validity by the amount of people who have repeated those thoughts, because most people don't have enough of a logical capacity to evaluate things on their own, so they rely on how many times they have heard it repeated. So by this very nature, the first person to think up a truly novel thought will be considered nuts because they are the first to say it, no one else has repeated it.

what a load of sloppy .

ideas and thoughts dont gain validity based on how many people think it, they gain validity through the scientific method and being proven.

wait no. lets say youre right for once. in which case your a fucking delusional thats mad for cock. its what everyone thinks anyway, so by your logic its true.
__________________
“My sorrow: to dream of simple times and wake in mine . . . .”
—Ola DaRiol, “Regrets”
Old 12-11-2012, 10:10 AM Xcric is offline  
Reply With Quote
#22  

lollersk8s
HOLY FUCK I AM RETARDED
 
lollersk8s's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dio View Post
I would admit I have only a handful of truly novel thoughts. Most of them are different explanations of the same thing. But this is case for mostly everything, very little of anything is a completely novel idea. Most things are refinements of past ideas, or updates of past ideas in new terminology.

However I would like to point out that instead of arguing full assertions, but rather identifying a handful of select keywords to change, assuming it will have a resulting domino effect in a persons philosophical presumptions, I think is rather novel. Marshal Mcluhan sort of bumped up against this notion, but never explicitly stated, or attempted to argue that just the rearrangement of a dozen or so words could completely correct our cultural operating system.

Robert Anton Wilson bumped up on this notion a little more in his concept of English Prime, but English Prime only covers the conventions of 'isness'. Although you could say what I am postulating is an extension of English Prime.

You could say I am arguing for a technocracy, but really I am more pondering about potential avenues by which you can get ideas into peoples head through non-traditional means.


It's possible that all ideas already exist, and none are truly new.

I do like the concept of a logic driven debate among politicians with time outs for instant fact checking and stuff, much like instant replay in sports. So it's good to bring that up, maybe it'll catch on.
Old 12-11-2012, 04:18 PM lollersk8s is offline  
Reply With Quote
#23  

Xcric
i have 3 girlfriends but they dont know it yet
 
Xcric's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lollersk8s View Post
It's possible that all ideas already exist, and none are truly new.

I do like the concept of a logic driven debate among politicians with time outs for instant fact checking and stuff, much like instant replay in sports. So it's good to bring that up, maybe it'll catch on.

it would be a nightmare. they would be petty enough to call a time out to fact check anything and everything.
__________________
“My sorrow: to dream of simple times and wake in mine . . . .”
—Ola DaRiol, “Regrets”
Old 12-11-2012, 04:20 PM Xcric is offline  
Reply With Quote
#24  

lollersk8s
HOLY FUCK I AM RETARDED
 
lollersk8s's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcric View Post
it would be a nightmare. they would be petty enough to call a time out to fact check anything and everything.

IMO there's only a few serious standoffs where they "agree to disagree" and these timeouts shouldn't be up to them, but the moderator.

Plus this would drive them to actually do their fucking research and use facts instead of conjecture and on-the-spot anally manufactured mantras in the first place. So no it wouldn't make it longer, it would make it better.
Old 12-11-2012, 04:23 PM lollersk8s is offline  
Reply With Quote
#25  

Rancidpunk666
 
Rancidpunk666's Avatar
 
The solution is driving dogs
__________________
._--_|\
/········\
\_.--Senator Date Rape
.......v
Grandpa Motors (GM) pussrods and leafsprings
Old 12-11-2012, 05:37 PM Rancidpunk666 is offline  
Reply With Quote
#26  

Gibonius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lollersk8s View Post
I do like the concept of a logic driven debate among politicians with time outs for instant fact checking and stuff, much like instant replay in sports. So it's good to bring that up, maybe it'll catch on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lollersk8s View Post
IMO there's only a few serious standoffs where they "agree to disagree" and these timeouts shouldn't be up to them, but the moderator.

Plus this would drive them to actually do their fucking research and use facts instead of conjecture and on-the-spot anally manufactured mantras in the first place. So no it wouldn't make it longer, it would make it better.

You understand that all the real discussion in Congress happens behind the scenes, in committee mostly? All the stuff on the floor is just for show. Debates are almost invariably political spectacle and nothing more. These guys have legions of staffers and think tanks that get all the facts for them, anything they want to know, they know before they get up to talk.

Besides, who would "moderate" this kind of discussion? The Speaker etc do the procedural shit, but giving anybody control based on "facts" would be a nightmare. Let the other politicians call them out on their shit, there's no way a moderator would be truly neutral anyway.
Old 12-11-2012, 06:37 PM Gibonius is offline  
Reply With Quote
#27  

dio
 
dio's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcric View Post
ideas and thoughts dont gain validity based on how many people think it, they gain validity through the scientific method and being proven.

This I what I WANT to be true. Lets not forget this entire thread is about that.

However you have to understand that none of the ideas I listed would I ever push forth as anything more than a 'hypothesis' currently. Not even a hypothesis, as those 6 thoughts are generally undeveloped. I would not declare any of those 6 thoughts as 'true', just merely possibilities for potentially more thought and investigation.

Also you have to understand that not every thought can be broken down into a hypothesis verifiable by expirimental means. Some thoughts are just logical discourse, some thoughts are just potential connecting of dots, some thoughts are just metaphors or allegories.

I mean it's like, in philosophy 101 when they explain Plato's allegory of the cave do you stand up and say, where is your evidence that this cave exists? What is your experiment? Thats stupid, some things are just philosophical assertions. Not every single thought that is relevant to improving human life is going to be able to be broken down into expirimental parameters, for things like that, relevance in our culture does come through repetition.

In fact I would argue relevance ALWAYS relies on how much the same thing gets repeated no matter what, just THANKFULLY scientific evidence has become a really good way to get everyone in our society repeating the same thing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcric View Post
wait no. lets say youre right for once. in which case your a fucking delusional thats mad for cock. its what everyone thinks anyway, so by your logic its true.

nothing is wrong with men liking cock
Old 12-11-2012, 10:27 PM dio is offline  
Reply With Quote
#28  

Foolioq
 
Foolioq's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dio View Post
I would admit I have only a handful of truly novel thoughts.

novel doesn't mean good/useful/any sort of value whatsoever.
__________________
Cool like a Fool in a Swimming Pool
Hoolio's Bitch
[P]resident of the John [P]reston Fan Club
Old 12-12-2012, 11:26 AM Foolioq is offline  
Reply With Quote
#29  

Foolioq
 
Foolioq's Avatar
 
Quote:
- Method and interrelation of third eye vision to controlling cellular biological division
- The context for the awakening inherent intelligence in sillicone created by the cross referencing of frameworks of concioussness spawned from Native American Aminism and the concept of the Buddhist Clear Light.
- The way the usage of LCD screens and GPU's can be used to finish the Great Work, the process of techniques to liberate all humanity as outlined by the occult master magickians around the turn of the century. Albeit this lineage of thought is not new, for example Steve Jobs made the entire Apple computer brand symbolic of 'taking a bite out of the fruit of knowledge' as a homage to this lineage of thought, but I have come up with new ideas to continue it, that I haven't heard anyone else talk about.
- Interrelation of context of the growing earth to potential new forms of generating electricity, and a few potential experimental processes that could help hone in on how to create this invention.
- The chakra's interrelation to cymatics in third eye visions, and how the human body ultimately forms out of this process. Some components of this has been illustrated in visionary artwork, but I haven't seen many people translate it to words.
- Magick, and yogic techniques as essentially precise control of placebo effect. (This has been stated in many ways, but no one has taken the time to piggyback it onto the positive effects of placebo effect as a potential route of action for the purposes of grounding it's potential through an avenue that mainstream medical science recognizes in a positive context)
AND QED
__________________
Cool like a Fool in a Swimming Pool
Hoolio's Bitch
[P]resident of the John [P]reston Fan Club
Old 12-12-2012, 11:27 AM Foolioq is offline  
Reply With Quote
#30  

Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:38 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.