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Vote McCain!
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Originally Posted by augusttremulous View Post
I think my high school handled this really well- we had to take a "College and Careers" class Junior and Senior year. In addition to college reps, they would have people in various trades come in to discuss their jobs as well.

On top of that, in your Junior and Senior year, you could opt to go to the local county vocational school. They'd work with you to arrange your schedule so you would have your required high school classes all during one half of the day, and then they'd bus you to the vo-tech school for the other half.

It presented many different options for what to do when you leave high school, and they made sure to present both paths in equal lights, not like COLLEGE IS BEST BUT IF UR DUMB U CAN DO DIS LOL, it was very much a "let's find out where your strengths and passions lie, and try to figure out where you'd fit best."

It's not a perfect fix or anything, but I think it was pretty decent.

This is exactly what I was thinking should be fixed with high school. That, and simply increasing the academic standards and spending more time in class...
Old 04-06-2013, 01:53 PM Vote McCain! is offline  
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Ya, I went to University and got a science degree.

I'm now in school for 2nd year plumber/gasfitter.
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Old 04-06-2013, 04:51 PM Drizzt is offline  
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Vote McCain!
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Ya, I went to University and got a science degree.

I'm now in school for 2nd year plumber/gasfitter.

why did you go to a university then?
Old 04-06-2013, 07:12 PM Vote McCain! is offline  
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tegandje
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i went to university
and then i decided to not do what i wanted to do the entire time i was in school
i just decided on a different career
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:26 PM tegandje is offline  
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Not sure. Thought that's what you do after high school.

Oh well can't go back in time, and my degree is not going anywhere.

Plus being kinda smartish makes plumbing school so fucking easy. The math that you do is ridiculously easy. Well almost all of it is easy. It was a nice change from university, what they teach in class is on the test, woo, just like high school.
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:29 PM Drizzt is offline  
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I didn't go to college, instead of going to college, I spent those years learning actual skills.

Now, in my company, I make more money than everyone my age who went to college, I make just as much money as the people who are 10 years older than me and did go to college. A large part of my job is teaching what I know to the college graduates to fill in the blanks that the university didn't take care of.
Old 04-06-2013, 08:19 PM dio is offline  
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If you want everyone to go to college then you have to lower the standard for participation in what used to be more exclusive institutions. These days there are schools that compete with eachother to see how low they can go with their admission standards and still remain accredited, and then the standards for accreditation get dropped because we want to "make education more accessible". Is it any wonder that college administrators and sitting in their offices and scratching their heads wondering why 50% of incoming freshmen have to take sub-100 level classes that they should have taken in high school?

Yep
Old 04-06-2013, 09:15 PM SamFarber is offline  
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augusttremulous
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agreed, but this goes right back to the point that college isn't for everybody (and neither is a thorough expertise in Shakespeare).

If you want everyone to go to college then you have to lower the standard for participation in what used to be more exclusive institutions. These days there are schools that compete with eachother to see how low they can go with their admission standards and still remain accredited, and then the standards for accreditation get dropped because we want to "make education more accessible". Is it any wonder that college administrators and sitting in their offices and scratching their heads wondering why 50% of incoming freshmen have to take sub-100 level classes that they should have taken in high school

They love this, because it means more $$$ for them. You have to take a certain number of credits to get a degree, but the sub-100 level classes don't count toward that, so you're paying for your 60+ credits anyway, PLUS the pre-college classes you need just to be able to take the regular classes.
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Old 04-07-2013, 06:19 AM augusttremulous is offline  
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They love this, because it means more $$$ for them. You have to take a certain number of credits to get a degree, but the sub-100 level classes don't count toward that, so you're paying for your 60+ credits anyway, PLUS the pre-college classes you need just to be able to take the regular classes.

This is why more high schools focus so much on college prep classes at the expense of any vocational training. Not to say teaching more advanced material at the high school level is bad, personally I think we need to up the academic standards in high schools and give the finger to those kids who can't get it together enough to meet them.

I'm glad I teach what the other programs call a "weed out" class, i.e. if you can't pass physics then you'll never get a chem, bio, geology, or engineering degree from our school; most of the students that come through are pretty bright and have a pretty good idea of what they want to do, i'd say about half the students have already worked in some field related to their degree (definitely the case for all the EE guys i meet).
Old 04-07-2013, 05:36 PM Vote McCain! is offline  
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edplayer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augusttremulous View Post
They love this, because it means more $$$ for them. You have to take a certain number of credits to get a degree, but the sub-100 level classes don't count toward that, so you're paying for your 60+ credits anyway, PLUS the pre-college classes you need just to be able to take the regular classes.


That stuff makes sense

What benefit would it be to the school or the student if they were allowed to enter courses without having a decent grasp of fundamental concepts necessary to succeed in them?

and why should sub 100 classes count towards a degree?

Plus the mentality of "I need 60 units or 2 years" is silly anyways.
Old 04-07-2013, 10:35 PM edplayer is offline  
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augusttremulous
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That stuff makes sense

What benefit would it be to the school or the student if they were allowed to enter courses without having a decent grasp of fundamental concepts necessary to succeed in them?

and why should sub 100 classes count towards a degree?

Plus the mentality of "I need 60 units or 2 years" is silly anyways.

I'm not disagreeing, they SHOULDN'T count toward the degree, I'm saying colleges love it because it's more money for them.
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Old 04-08-2013, 06:22 AM augusttremulous is offline  
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I don't think the world's going to start hiring engineers, chemists, biologists, etc. that haven't gone through the corresponding university training. Or electricians, machinists, etc. that haven't done their appropriate trade education. And that's not necessarily a bad thing.

But "everyone should go to college" is definitely a myth. Obligating everyone into college/university straight out of high school isn't good. Do what you want, and if you don't know what you want to do, don't waste time/money in college figuring out what you want - or worse, getting a degree in something you don't even enjoy.

I was lucky enough to be a young electronics hacker, and went into university to get my EE degree and subsequent career. But I've seen lots of people go through the university/college thing, get their papers and get nothing out of it except for a bunch of debt. And I know plenty of successful people who haven't completed any secondary education.
Old 04-08-2013, 06:36 AM gee is offline  
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Vote McCain!
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That stuff makes sense

What benefit would it be to the school or the student if they were allowed to enter courses without having a decent grasp of fundamental concepts necessary to succeed in them?

and why should sub 100 classes count towards a degree?

Plus the mentality of "I need 60 units or 2 years" is silly anyways.

What makes even more sense is to encourage kids to learn it in high school and quit having this mentality of "let someone else do it"
Old 04-08-2013, 11:03 AM Vote McCain! is offline  
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edplayer
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What makes even more sense is to encourage kids to learn it in high school and quit having this mentality of "let someone else do it"


I'm not familiar with how high schools are currently run but are you saying that it is not encouraged?
Old 04-08-2013, 07:36 PM edplayer is offline  
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I'd say there is more the case in High School these days to put the onus for student failure on the teachers, and system, so as not to "hurt" the self esteem of the students for failing.

These days the teacher is to blame for his lacking of teaching ability, not the student for his lack of ability to learn.

Some, of that may be true, but mostly now, people are more concerned with a child's view point of the world and how he or she feels. than taking a belt to their ass when they repeatedly screw up in school and goof off and fail their classes.

When a kid brings home a failing grade NOW, the parents bitch about the teacher, not that their kid is being a fuck up.

A lot of it comes form the parents, more than the teachers. Seeking someone else to blame because they use a light feather touch when a good ole' ass beating should be employed.

Teachers are getting away with more lax standard's as much because of Union interference. as they are because they HAVE to. They MUST relax their standards so mommy and daddy's precious little BRAT, can feel good about himself and make "progress".

Either they let the kid pass, or the parents throw a hissy fit and the teachers get fired. And then suddenly, in college the kids are unprepared, but the colleges give a shit, because they make money selling classes that are degree meaningless, and then the kids reach the work force and find out their employers are not as lax as their teachers were and then end up in deep shit because the employer just fires their asses for being dip shits. And little Johnny can't cry to mommy and Daddy about it.

Last edited by gwiber; 04-08-2013 at 08:05 PM..
Old 04-08-2013, 07:59 PM gwiber is offline  
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